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PostSubject: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2020 3:23 pm

As posted elsehere I'm just settig up my licenced station for the first tiime.

I have a G5RV halfwave i bought to use for my cb. The notes that came with it said it was cut for 11 metres and does not need a balun. Now I wnat to tempory use it for other bands.

I have a Kenwood 57011DG tranceiver with built in ATU. My question is: Do I now need a balun or will the ATU take care of everything?

Next Question;  Anyone know if a Sandpiper HF antenna is like to work? 


James
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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2020 3:32 pm

Can't answer your question my self but found this if it's of any help to you (sone good links in it as well)...
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/g5rv-use-with-or-without-balun.165303/
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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2020 4:20 pm

I have used the G5RV junior version for a while mainly for listening on various bands but it worked just fine on transmit with the ATU without a Balun but I found an Air choke or Ugly Balun reduced the noise floor somewhat.

https://www.qsl.net/on7dy/Documentation/All%20Band%20HF%20Air%20Core/Build%20an%20All%20Band%20HF%20Air%20Core.html

I have since switched to the ZS6BKW which is a full-size optimised version of the G5RV with slightly different dimensions so it resonates on several bands, I have fitted a 1 to 1 balun with this version of the wire dipole in a stealth installation that is getting me our surprisingly well I am pleased to say.

https://www.simplehamradioantennas.com/2018/11/how-to-build-zs6bkw-multiband-hf.html

73's 

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2020 4:47 pm

Hello James.

No a G5RV doesn't require a balun. If the one you have has been some how modified to be resonant on 11 meters then I would definitely consider replacing it with a normal G5RV. You could put it in situ and see what results you get with it. Perhaps get an antenna analyser on it to see what it looks like across all the amateur bands. 

Most internal ATU's will handle a small miss match but if it's a long way out you'll need a proper ATU. Better still pick the bands you want to use and build resonant antenna's for those you'll get the best performance possible and you won't require an ATU at all.

73's Gary.

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2020 5:20 pm

As Gary say's build your own and you get a big bonus with that way.
A smile from ear to ear when it works.

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43CT016
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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeMon Sep 14, 2020 1:52 am

A G5RV isn't for 11m, so if it's been modified to do that, it isn't a G5RV any more, just a doublet (Ladder line fed).

http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/g5rv/

However, a G5RV isn't really a great multiband dipole by today's standards, and needed an ATU anyway (and a pretty high ranging one on some bands too), so look at the ZS6BKW variant instead.

There's also a really good page on improving these too, depending on what bands you want.

http://www.w5dxp.com/ZS6BKW80/ZS6BKW80.HTM

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeMon Sep 14, 2020 3:01 pm

My G5RV came from Nevda as I recll and was advertised speciically made for 11m which was all I was using. I already had a ganmaster but their is limited receptin in my area, where only Hiailsham and Hastings is all I can get on UK reception.


I will read more on the above Z56BKW as I think I need a longerr wire than this 10 feet version. Z56 is around 90 feet and my garden is 46ft by 30ft.

The guy I bought the radio fom was running an Antron which he demonstrated aross the bands and had some USA on 21,  Alas nothing on either of mine so far today aprt from UK 37.

I've only had the 570 a few hours so not depressed yet..... )

James

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43CT016
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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2020 11:53 am

Jape wrote:
My G5RV came from Nevda as I recll and was advertised speciically made for 11m which was all I was using. 

James

Yeah, but it can’t be a G5RV...that is a very specific antenna, named after the callsign of it’s inventor, and it dictates a certain length of elements and specific length of twinlead 300R feedline.  Can’t remember the lenghts, but it is a little short of a 80m dipole in length, and designed primarily for 20m, IIRC.

So, they may have called it a G5RV, but it wasn’t. Very Happy

A single band dipole for 11m, fed with coax, would be appx 5.5m long - i.e. halfwave.  There is no need at all to try and match multiple bands, or make it a different length with matching sections if it’s to be a monoband antenna.

Out of interest, was it fed with open wire/ladderline, or coax?

Anyway, for an actual multiband antenna, also have a look at an EFHW.  Just another option depending on layout, etc.


Last edited by 43CT016 on Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2020 1:06 pm

Jape wrote:
My G5RV came from Nevda as I recll and was advertised speciically made for 11m which was all I was using. I already had a ganmaster but their is limited receptin in my area, where only Hiailsham and Hastings is all I can get on UK reception.


I will read more on the above Z56BKW as I think I need a longerr wire than this 10 feet version. Z56 is around 90 feet and my garden is 46ft by 30ft.

The guy I bought the radio fom was running an Antron which he demonstrated aross the bands and had some USA on 21,  Alas nothing on either of mine so far today aprt from UK 37.

I've only had the 570 a few hours so not depressed yet..... )

James

I have my ZS6BKW in the loft, it goes around it about 1.5X using plastic insulators, I took the time to tune it properly in situ and I made contacts in Russia and Canada in the past week.
A chap I speak to used to have his G5RV running along the top of his garden fence and he told me it did surprisingly well.
Unconventional installations can do a good job it seems, don't be put off by a small garden.

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm

No Ladderline came with it. It was pre- made thing in a packet. Two lenths of 5ft et copeer wire to an oval feed point with 259 connector.Lke this but shorter https://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/product/mfj-1779b/ = Just connects to my ct120 coax.

I wasn't planning to go beyond cb at the tme.

Are long wires oay for being bent rund corners ec. The longest run I cn gt is 40 feet - could double it back to the start point of course.


James

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2020 4:49 pm

Hello James that's just a bog standard dipole, not a G5RV at all. 

I would really consider making your own antenna, with a little research then I'm sure you could knock something up to get you started. 

Have a look at this product.  https://www.gwhip.co.uk/421-triband-antenna It's resonant on 10, 20, & 40 meters without a tuner. I've used this for the last couple of years because they're the bands I like the most. 

I've worked most of Europe, Africa, the middle east, Canada, the USA and plenty more with it so it does a reasonable job. Food for thought!!!

73's Gary.

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm

GaryWilson wrote:
Hello James that's just a bog standard dipole, not a G5RV at all. 

I would really consider making your own antenna, with a little research then I'm sure you could knock something up to get you started. 

Have a look at this product.  https://www.gwhip.co.uk/421-triband-antenna It's resonant on 10, 20, & 40 meters without a tuner. I've used this for the last couple of years because they're the bands I like the most. 

I've worked most of Europe, Africa, the middle east, Canada, the USA and plenty more with it so it does a reasonable job. Food for thought!!!

73's Gary.
Hi Gary/Alan

I will give that tritband a try as it wil bE quite easy to intalland suits my garden and bungalow. Have you tired it on 80m ?

I also like Alan's Z56. Although it is bit too long for the garden and causes compications etc  - I do have a big loft and will try an install in there, but it's not gonna be that high.

Thanks for all the input on this. }

James

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2020 12:07 am

As a general rule of thumb, an antenna cut for a certain band won’t work at all well on a lower frequency band...so a 40m dipole is a no go on 80m, for example.  Now, you may get a good tuner to match it, but that does not mean it will radiate well!  

That’s why you’ll see trapped dipoles Or fan dipoles to get 80 and 40 on the same wire, or other designs like loops and EFHW which (with matching transformers or baluns) do a better job on multiple bands.

Whilst it would be lovely to pick an antenna per job or per band, these days, we’re often concerned with what fits or what’s allowed, so it’s always a compromise.

Here, I have. 8010EFHW which gets me the main bands between 80 and 10 (Though I usually just use 40 and 80) with nothing other than the tuner in the radio, and a trapped vertical which I mainly use on 20m, but does do 80/40/30/20/15/10, all independently tuned, so again no tuner....other than for 80m where it has incredibly narrow bandwidth.


Last edited by 43CT016 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 pm

Alan - Mirror M wrote:
I have my ZS6BKW in the loft, it goes around it about 1.5X using plastic insulators, I took the time to tune it properly in situ and I made contacts in Russia and Canada in the past week.  
A chap I speak to used to have his G5RV running along the top of his garden fence and he told me it did surprisingly well.
Unconventional installations can do a good job it seems, don't be put off by a small garden.

Does it require a balun and rod earth

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2020 6:44 am

Jape wrote:
GaryWilson wrote:
Hello James that's just a bog standard dipole, not a G5RV at all. 

I would really consider making your own antenna, with a little research then I'm sure you could knock something up to get you started. 

Have a look at this product.  https://www.gwhip.co.uk/421-triband-antenna It's resonant on 10, 20, & 40 meters without a tuner. I've used this for the last couple of years because they're the bands I like the most. 

I've worked most of Europe, Africa, the middle east, Canada, the USA and plenty more with it so it does a reasonable job. Food for thought!!!

73's Gary.
Hi Gary/Alan

I will give that tritband a try as it wil bE quite easy to intalland suits my garden and bungalow. Have you tired it on 80m ?

I also like Alan's Z56. Although it is bit too long for the garden and causes compications etc  - I do have a big loft and will try an install in there, but it's not gonna be that high.

Thanks for all the input on this. }

James
Hello James, 

I haven't tried it on 80m because I don't have a tuner to do that with. I suspect that it would be pretty poor 80m but 30, 17, 15 and 12 might be worth a try. It's certainly worked for me with my limited ish garden. 

73's Gary.

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2020 11:13 pm

The triband arrived today and is rigged up in experimental mode to determine wether east to west is best or north to south. My garden faces south.. Either way it seems ro work better than anything I had. It is currently attached and running n/s flat along a clothes line. Thats about as high I can get the attenna at the moment. 

I am planning to fix one end to the chimney on my bungalow as the antenna is supposed to be a sloper - but that limits me to a north-south config.

James

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PostSubject: Re: G5RV for multiband   G5RV for multiband Icon_minitimeFri Sep 18, 2020 9:05 am

Jape wrote:
Alan - Mirror M wrote:
I have my ZS6BKW in the loft, it goes around it about 1.5X using plastic insulators, I took the time to tune it properly in situ and I made contacts in Russia and Canada in the past week.  
A chap I speak to used to have his G5RV running along the top of his garden fence and he told me it did surprisingly well.
Unconventional installations can do a good job it seems, don't be put off by a small garden.

Does it require a balun and rod earth

I used it without one at first just an air choke/ugly Balan but did add a one to one balun after a short time. It doesn't need to be earned as it's a balanced antenna but I am using both an air choke and one to one balun, you would certainly get away without using the balun for a time but adding one does make noticeable improvements.
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