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 Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847

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Wireless
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 3:14 pm

Rather than continue to hijack the Inverted-V Thread I've migrated this here.

Ok, this morning I dug out the 20ft scaffold pole, and attached it to a scaffold pole rooted by my son under paving slabs and concrete, about 15 years ago (yes this has been a long-winded project, ha).


Nothing on it at present, just up there to get the neighbours used to the idea.

In the first picture its between the chimney and telegraph pole (the one that used to supply a line to my house long before I moved here in 2004).  As you can see, it's 'hardly' an impact on the view.


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 25960510

Also dug out some 20+ year old pole brackets (no idea what these go for today)


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 25985510


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26008610

It will have to come down to have guy ropes, a marine cleat, and some marine grade rope attached, as I need to run a rope from the old GPO Insulator down to the scaffold pole and send my son up the tower to measure how big a support bracket I need to have made by an engineering pal.

The support bracket will support the spaced dipole coming up the tower from the SGC-235, already have old pyrex dog bones for the ends, and ex-military porcelain insulator spacers for the feed up the  tower, just have to decide whether to use a porcelain 50,000v Insulator modded with nylon threaded bolt, or the rather large ex-Commercial black nylon dog bone, as the centre for the top of the tower.

As regards Planning Permission, none is required, as long as you follow the following rules

1. Do not erect a tower/mast within 2 metres of the boundary of the property.

2. Do not erect a tower/mast within 5 metres of a neighbouring building.

3. Do not erect a tower/mast, including antenna, that is visible from the kerbside directly in front of your front door.  Nothing should be visible above the roofline (not chimney) from that position.

As regards possible objections by neighbours reporting you to the Local Planning Authority

Your tower/mast/antenna mustn't be higher than surrounding trees, utility poles, existing towers or masts.  Also you should observe safety by always adding guy wires to any structure at every 30ft elevation, and use a formula to work out how much of a concrete and reinforced tower/mast base you need to put in the ground as an anchor (sorry don't have a link to hand, calculated this a while ago from an online source).

If your tower/mast/antenna meets any of the above for an objection, A Planning Officer may visit and require you to submit a retrospective planning application, or you might be ordered in writing to remove the tower/mast within 28 days.

So a bit of a project requiring a bit of research, but look up GPDO 1995 as your guide to what is already permitted without a need for a Planning Application, ha.

Ok, tried to post a link to GPDO 1995 and I'm not permitted as I'm new.

Update: had some stuff arrive in the post, an ex-commercial 50,000v porcelain insulator that could be used as a dipole centre, plus some ex-military porcelain antenna wire spacers I found on eBay.


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 25970210

Here's what I already have here, might as well go with the ex-commercial dog bone instead.


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 25971810

I do have some old pyrex dog bones enroute in the post, which I found on eBay, I do like old kit.

Update: The pyrex dog bones turned up today, yayyy...


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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26017310


Last edited by Wireless on Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
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Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 3:52 pm

Was out measuring today for working out what I'm going to do, and the wire antenna isn't going to be straight forward.

The leg from the Tower to the Scaffold Pole is ~19.7 metres, and the leg from the Tower to the GPO Insulator on the corner of my house is ~17.1 metres, oops, a lack of planning there me thinks over 17 years.

Also the height of an existing pulley support on the 20ft Scaffold Pole is going to have to be the height of the wire antenna, since the centre support has yet to be made for the 20ft Tower, and unfortunately the GPO Insulator is at about 15ft, another oops.

So, I've ordered a 12" Galvanised T&K Bracket, and that will have to be attached down the side of the house, and an old 6ft steel pole I have here will have to be erected on these brackets, to provide a pulley support for that leg of the antenna, which will now be ~3ft above the roof guttering, which is ~17ft AGL.

Once both ends are erected, with cleats to tie off to below, I'll be using some marine grade rope through these pulleys to work out the dimensions for the centre support to be made and attached to the Tower. 

Update: Forgot to mention I'll need to add some guy wires to the Aluminium Scaffold Pole, as this will not stay vertical under any weight from a wire antenna pulling the top from 90 degrees angle, particularly as I plan to use Copperweld for the Antenna Wire (plated Copper over Woven Steel Wire), I won't go into the technical side of this suffice to say its been around for more than a 100 years, and you only need a few thousands of an inch of Copper to create a more effective radiator, and the Steel gives it a lot more strength and longevity; it's also cheaper than a purely copper wire.

All a bit of a ball ache I admit, but as I've spent a lot of money erecting the tower so its got to look right, ha.

The legs will have a ~4.3m vertical section up the Tower from the SGC-235, and then the 19.7m horizontal run out to each of the ends.

So that's legs about a ~24.1m, which is resonant at ~2.96 MHz as a 1/2 wave dipole, although I'll find out how close it comes to that when I eventually use an antenna analyser, I'm sure the vertical sections of each leg will affect this.

Told the wife about the T&K Bracket, she expected I'd do something like that, and I have a fibre optic cable for the Interweb to run from the attic to my shack anyway, so I can still use the GPO Insulator.

So...win win then...


Last edited by Wireless on Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 4:22 pm

Great posting Wayne. Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 1f44d 

Always good to be able to see such postings easily without being lost in another so well done.


Your detailed info into planning considerations will be invaluable to others and I can see towers and sky hooks being thought about with relish! Very Happy Worth checking with 'Parish' Councils also for some archaic covenants they may enforce.

I know I look forward to see how you progress and sure others do too.

You have to be of the certain radio persuasion to be drooling over a tower like yours and I find myself drooling over those insulators too. Gonna need a 'bib' when we see what you put up antenna wise! Wink


All the best,
Victor

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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 4:48 pm

Victor wrote:

You have to be of the certain radio persuasion to be drooling over a tower like yours and I find myself drooling over those insulators too. Gonna need a 'bib' when we see what you put up antenna wise! Wink

Ok, you'll have to drool a bit more, I found a 7" Pyrex Dog Bone, so am now considering a fully old school antenna, 100 year old (made recently) Copperweld Antenna Wire, centre 7" and end leg 4" Pyrex Dog Bone Insulators, and ex-Military Porcelain 6" wire spacers for the vertical section.

It will be a thing of beauty me thinks.
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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm

Took a while to get here, but here's some more components for this antenna.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26216310

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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
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Join date : 2021-11-19
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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2021 6:57 pm

OK the 12" T&K Brackets have arrived, but I think you've all seen those before.

Actually, these were delivered to my next door neighbour, right next to the tower (2.3 metres from the boundary), so I'm not sure she knew what she was handing over, ha.

BTW, anything over 3 metres requires planning permission, but as I know I'd be granted it anyway, I'm not applying unless I have to.

At my last QTH (a mile away), I had stuff at 6m, and a 26ft Butternut in the garden, and the Planning bod said he's not seen anything that requires an application...so meh
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
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QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2021 7:08 pm

Always, but always, follow GPDO 1995, and if you need to fight anything use the RSGB Planning Department (need to be a member, but I think they have SWL Memberships).

Oh, and if you've had it up four years without complaint, there's faff all they can do about it.
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
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Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2021 11:14 pm

Ok, despite the rain, my son went up the ladder late this afternoon, and erected the 12" T&K Bracket, with the 5ft x 50mm Aluminium Pole w Eyelet Bolt, to the side of the house.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26559510

The picture clearly shows my plan for using the existing GPO Telephone Insulator is significantly lower than 20ft (actually around 4.5ft below), and that the Northern leg of the dipole would be about 8ft short.  Oh well, at least I have somewhere to run the fibre down to the shed.

So the second leg support is now up, just need to modify the first leg support with new eye bolts and a pair of wire guys, plus add a couple of rope cleats, then the carabiners and pulleys can be erected with a rope between the two legs.

I can then get the dipole support constructed in the centre, and finally put all the parts of the antenna together on the Tower, and out to the legs.
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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 19, 2021 3:07 pm

Minor update, changed the rusty eye bolt on top of the Southern 20ft Scaffold Pole, and fitted two more at 45 degrees just below it, all marine stainless steel.  Drilled and fitted a rope cleat, marine stainless at about 5ft AGL on the same pole.

Have another rope cleat for the house wall below the Northern 5ft Scaffold Pole on T&K, and have ordered screws and Rawl Plugs to fit at 5ft AGL.

Also ordered 15 metres of 2mm wire rope, two masonry eye brackets, two wire rope turn buckles, four D-shackles, four thimbles, and four wire clamps to construct two wire tension guys ~6.20 metres each for the Southern 20ft Scaffold Pole, all stainless steel or marine grade.

Then ordered 100 metres of 4mm Polypropylene rope.

A lot of faffing about to come, mainly to work out the dimensions and construction of the dipole centre support on the 20ft lattice tower.  It's taking longer than I thought.

Only time I've used Trigonometry since leaving school has been when designing Antennas to comply with planning permission.

Anyone else needs a handy online calculator for this sort of stuff, take a look here

https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/trigonometry
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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2021 1:51 pm

Ok, 15 metres of 2mm steel guy wire has turned up, slowly gathering the parts...

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26971310


Yes, I could have used rope, but in the past have had wire antennas come down in less than 18 months due to rope deteriorating, since it's always moving, and when it gets dirty the fibres rub the dirt together and eventually they snap.  Remember this will be a Copperweld Wire Antenna, so has a steel core covered with copper, so there will be some weight here, I'm actually worried about the stresses on the Pyrex dog bones, but we'll have to find out whether this is an issue, there's always Nylon as a replacement, but I wanted old school.
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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2021 5:06 pm

I'm going to need a drawing to visualise this Smile

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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 24, 2021 10:24 pm

Some Pulleys n other bits turned up, just waiting for the turn buckles and d-shackles...

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 26981410

I'll have to make a drawing, and I'm not good at illustration, so will have to sit down and get it right, ha.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Random10

Sorry, best I can do, there will be other antennas on the tower, including the 16ft 40m Mobile Whip Dipole, a V2000 Co-linear, 4m Folded Dipole, 2/70 Co-linear, and a Satellite Dish for encrypted Weather Satellite Data.

Also going to fit a flood light for the garden on the tower.
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Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 31, 2021 4:10 pm

This stuff is taking its time turning up, just the D-Shackles today, so still awaiting the Turn Buckles...

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27080410
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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 31, 2021 7:32 pm

Interesting reading the the plans and seeing the parts slowly arrive to come together. I must say though that you've more restraint than I. If I had that tower in the garden I would get a bit of wire on it any way I could straight away and see what I could do with it, and if lacking wire then just tune up the tower itself Laughing I've watched vids of people tuning up many objects like fences, ladders, sheds and even objects with no metal like trees and make contacts, so I bet your tower would get out fairly well just as it is Smile

Give it a go! Smile

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Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 31, 2021 8:39 pm

SangueG wrote:
Interesting reading the the plans and seeing the parts slowly arrive to come together. I must say though that you've more restraint than I. If I had that tower in the garden I would get a bit of wire on it any way I could straight away and see what I could do with it, and if lacking wire then just tune up the tower itself Laughing I've watched vids of people tuning up many objects like fences, ladders, sheds and even objects with no metal like trees and make contacts, so I bet your tower would get out fairly well just as it is Smile

Give it a go! Smile

You have to remember that I've not operated a shack since 2004, and whilst I'm itching to get started again, a couple of weeks isn't going to make any difference to the years I've waited or wasted.

Have to admit, these Turn Buckles not turning up is a tad frustrating, ha.

Also, the neighbour seems to have accepted my tower and antennas, she was really enthusiastic chatting in the garden today, even had someone come around to trim her tree with a chainsaw in her garden so it won't interfere with my new dipole... just outstanding really.
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Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 06, 2022 3:34 pm

Finally, the Turn Buckles arrived today, bit late in terms of making guy wires due to the rain and limited daylight left here, so a project for tomorrow.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27143510
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Wireless
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 08, 2022 12:07 am

Some progress today

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27154310

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27154210

Ok, threaded some polypropylene 4mm rope up the Northern Support after my son went up the ladder to attach a Mountaineering Caribiner and Marine Pulley.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27171710

Starting to come together, just awaiting a pair of wire cutters, decided I wanted to make tidy cuts to the steel cabling, rather than end up with fraying on the ends...  So the Southern Support awaits in the next few days.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27171410

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Wireless
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 10, 2022 1:35 pm

Got the control lead for the FT-847 turn up, I believe I have one already which is all serial D9 connectors when USB was not widespread, so this will allow me to use an old-ish laptop 24/7 with lower power requirements.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27168111

Mmm...thinking ahead in terms of resilience, prolly have to think about UPS charged with Mains, Solar, and Wind...  Just don't tell 'er indoors...
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Wireless
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 10, 2022 3:54 pm

Ok, bit more progress...

Eye Brackets fitted to Gravel Boards

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27170410

Notice above that we're also having groundwork done to the garden, so there's no plants, also note that the fence panel isn't lower on the right, what we've done is use 7 Gravel Boards and then bolted on a fence panel in front of it... from a distance it looks like a normal fence.

You'll be asking why, well this is the panel behind the backstop for my 30 yard Air Rifle Range, you can see the concrete base has been laid for construction of the Butts, which will be made out of concrete Slabs holding a sloping sand backstop, the fence is a bit OTT but I decided to construct it to a standard that could retain .22lr, even though I will only ever be using .177 air pellets.

So I want absolutely no chance of a pellet leaving my boundary, and therefore being OTT.

The Butts will be enclosed in a structure that will look like a shed, since the wife has demands for aesthetics (hence the fence), and when not in use will not look like a Firing Range.

Also, to save money, and support local wildlife, the underneath of the Butts will be turned into a place for Hedgehogs, Frogs, and Newts to Winter, and she's got plans for a pond nearby, as well as Hedgehog Tunnels through the Gravel Boards in our fence.

I think it will attract rats personally, but at least I might get moving targets...

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27170810Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27169710


Here's a view of the Eye Bolts at the top of the Southern Support, these Eye Brackets and Bolts will fix the two Steel Guys Wires I'm making

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27169711Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27170210


Here's the Cleat I put on the Southern Support the other week

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27169510


Here's the in-line view of where the antenna will be going, from the base of the Southern Support looking towards the Northern Support on the T&K Bracket which was put up the other week.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27170610

I'll do the 2mm Steel Guy Wires tomorrow as my son is coming around to help.
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 10, 2022 7:55 pm

Chuffed to bits, just secured more Porcelain Insulated Spacers, these are 11" long, I suspect I've just found the means to support the Dipole Centre on the Lattice Tower...

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 S-l16010
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43CT016
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43CT016


Call Sign : 43-CT-016
Posts : 262
Times Thanked : 17
Join date : 2019-11-17
QTH or Location : Perth
Equipment Used : iCom IC-7610/IC-9700

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 10, 2022 10:16 pm

Wish I had your olanning laws and neighbours!

Out of interest, looks like you’re planning to use homemade open feeder for feedline down the metal tower - how far away from the tower are you intending to run this, or did I misread the diagram?
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 10, 2022 11:38 pm

43CT016 wrote:
Wish I had your olanning laws and neighbours!

Out of interest, looks like you’re planning to use homemade open feeder for feedline down the metal tower - how far away from the tower are you intending to run this, or did I misread the diagram?

This particular neighbour is ex-RAMC, and so am I, although I was Royal Signals before that, she's also pretty good when it comes to shooting too, even had her partner request I shoot any rats I might see in her garden, but I don't see many, I think two in the 17 years I've lived here.  You'll be aware our gun laws are very strict here, and even though I don't have a problem with my neighbours, I never undertake target shooting with the air rifle if they are using their garden, even if its moderated (silenced).  Just the 6 degree rule from target shooting, anyone more than 6 degrees of angle in front of my firing point and its a no.

The open feeder will be radiating, since the SGC-235 Auto ATU feeds the antenna directly, so what you see as a feeder is actually part of the wire antenna, its just 4.3 metres of vertical antenna then about 19.7 metres of horizontal antenna as it turns 90 degrees at the 7" Pyrex Dog Bone in the centre.

As regards distance from the tower its probably going to be less than 12", I won't know what the distance is exactly until I run a rope as the 'antenna' between the two distant supports, and can take measurements (or rather my son will be sent up with a tape measure), to find out how far away from the tower I need to design the centre support, should be fun.

The SGC-235 will be fed with RG-213 from my FT-847, should only be about 2 metres of coax, which shouldn't really affect the transceiver as I've lined the shed with two ply aluminium foil sandwiched over 50mm of insulation.  I should be sat inside a Faraday Cage effectively.

The three sided galvanised Lattice Tower has three 1" risers latticed together at 12" centres per side, so the drawing shows a much wider vertical section of vertical wire radiators spaced wider than 12", in reality the spacers are 6", and I'm planning (at this stage) to use 1" mast clamps and the 11" spacers to keep the antenna away from the Tower, but this is currently guesswork as I'll have to do a bit more trigonometry to work out what I can achieve with what I have.

Shouldn't get feedback via the link to the Internet either (experienced that before when using CAT-5E), this time around I'm linking to the house with fibre optic cable using media convertors.

I did say I'm not good at drawings, and its obviously not to scale, so I expect people would have questions, I'm putting it all on here because somebody else might want to try similar or different homebrew antennas, and can see the solutions I've used, and either use them or think of something better/cheaper for their circumstances.

I really would have liked to have had the land to erect a half wave for top band, but you cut your cloth to what you have.
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43CT016
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43CT016


Call Sign : 43-CT-016
Posts : 262
Times Thanked : 17
Join date : 2019-11-17
QTH or Location : Perth
Equipment Used : iCom IC-7610/IC-9700

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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 11, 2022 6:11 am

Wireless wrote:

The open feeder will be radiating, since the SGC-235 Auto ATU feeds the antenna directly, so what you see as a feeder is actually part of the wire antenna, its just 4.3 metres of vertical antenna then about 19.7 metres of horizontal antenna as it turns 90 degrees at the 7" Pyrex Dog Bone in the centre.

As regards distance from the tower its probably going to be less than 12", I won't know what the distance is exactly until I run a rope as the 'antenna' between the two distant supports, and can take measurements (or rather my son will be sent up with a tape measure), to find out how far away from the tower I need to design the centre support, should be fun.

Yeah, that was my concern, because I suspect it will couple, but at least you know what to look for!

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Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 11, 2022 10:41 am

Ok, the Polypropylene Rope is acting as the 'antenna' for the purposes of measurement.

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27176310Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27170611

The pulley is acting like it should

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27177510Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27175510

I have 9 inches of clearance between the Lattice Tower and 'antenna'

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27174610

The Steel Guy Wires are keeping the Scaffold Pole under tension and steady

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 27179610

It was muddy and cold down the far end of the garden, so I will leave pictures of those for another day.
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Wireless


Call Sign : 26-CT-4345 / M5WJF
Posts : 144
Times Thanked : 10
Join date : 2021-11-19
QTH or Location : Shrewsbury IO82OQ
Equipment Used : Albrecht AE-5890EU / Yaesu FT-847 + SGC-235/Dipole + V2000 + 4m Folded Dipole, Yaesu FT-100D + ATAS-120A, HF Transceiver? + Butternut HF-9V, Yaesu FT-8800R + 2/70 Whip, then Yaesu FT-90 / FT-727 and other stuff
Age : 56

Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 12, 2022 9:09 pm

For those that have difficulty distinguishing between a Tuner and a Coupler, here's a very good explanation.

SGC Smartuner Tech Notes

I shouldn't have much difficulty matching the random dipole planned here, even with 4.3 metres of the 24 metres of each leg being vertical and spaced by 6 inch Admiralty Antenna Wire Spacers, although I have a back up plan of using 12" Admiralty Antenna Wire Spacers.

Here's the SGC SG-235 (SGC regard it as a Coupler rather than an ATU) that I'll be using

SGC SG-235 Smartuner

However, until the antenna is up in the initial configuration, I won't know how effective it will be.

Options to change the configuration include using 12" Spacers, or moving the SG-235 to the top of the Lattice Tower (shortening the overall length of each leg).

I bought mine in 2003 or 2004, prices seem to have sky rocketed since then.

ML&S Advert for SG-235 (No I am not sponsored, ha)

Fingers crossed the 6" Spacers work just fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847   Project: PC-ALE or JS8Call NVIS HF Antenna + SGC-235 + FT-847 Icon_minitime

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