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 Extra grounding

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PostSubject: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeSat Nov 13, 2021 10:55 am

Hi everyone,I’m using a Sirio 5/8 wave vertical antenna for homebase and as you you know their D.C grounded.I planning on adding an additional ground to see if this will help with QRM and any static build up even thought it has that fancy cage on the top that only attracts the magpies to sit on.I eventually found out why my tuning tip was slowly getting bent over to one side.
What’s the best way I should add an extra ground as I was thinking of adding a lightening arrestor or a lightening/surge protector and run a earth wire from that to a rod into the ground.What’s you thoughts on that idea or us there something better.
Cheers chaps and have a great weekend.
Tom.
26 CT 4029

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeSat Nov 13, 2021 11:41 am

Common mode choke might help

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeMon Nov 15, 2021 8:21 am

Personally, I am a great believer in grounding and make the effort to ground my station each time I have set one up, in the past I have hammered a copper tube into the ground and connected it with a heavy earthing cable but I am currently using the steel clothes pole/washing pole concreted into the ground and also connected to a redundant heating system (disconnected from the mains).  I found an air choke or ugly balun to be a benefit and I know others have had the same experience if adding radials to improve reception I have found tuned lengths for the desired frequency far more effective than random lengths of wire.

I think this is one of the main issues that has surprised many of us who have returned to radio after a few years away, the amount of static and interference you now get, to help cut this down I turned everything off in the house from the fuse box and running the radio from battery I turned one item on ar a time to identify which electrical items were the worst offenders for causing interference it ended up being two LED lights I was surprised to discover and the addition of ferrite rings to their power leads improved the situation a great deal.

Let us know how you get on

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeMon Nov 15, 2021 10:35 am

Grounding, Earthing, Bonding - always seems to be a contentious point when it comes to RF.


In the spirit of 'more knowledge can often create more confusion' :-

https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/technicalarticles/dxe-rgp-scb.pdf

and

http://www.arrl.org/assorted-hints-kinks


For me? I'd go with the Signal Corps solution if running a vertical....

...but I run a dipole system upstairs so there is no 'Earth' just good practices avoiding 'ground loops' and my Personal Computer connections to the radio, (FT8), are totally signal isolated.

Common Mode Choking as suggested above also made a massive difference to my own setup and all my main QRM problems are now gone. (Previously S9+ hash when the bathroom extractor went on! Now it has no effect. Extra grounding 1f44d )


I think it's more a case of finding a solution that works for your setup.

Hope you get sorted Tom.

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeMon Nov 15, 2021 12:08 pm

There’s a big difference between earthing/grounding as lightning protection, and just grounding to bleed static or attempting to help with noise.

Personally, I wouldn’t run a vertical without a lightning arrestor and ground rod, so it’s never a bad idea to do that, especially if you can’t always disconnect the antenna in a storm.

Depending on the source of your noise, various chokes may help…..but I’d start by seeing if you can find the source of at least some of the noise.

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeMon Nov 15, 2021 12:41 pm

Thanks 43CT016,You right about using a vertical antenna without a lightening arrestor and one will be added ASAP.I saw knights selling one for £20 and is a lightening arrestor/anti static so I’ll go for that.The reasoning behind the extra grounding is just to try and eradicate some of the bad QRM I suffer from on channels 12,13 and 14 on the mid block.Nowhere else just those 3 channels.Everything is is S2 on a bad day and I can hear a fart at 1000 miles away..lol
Seriously its most probably caused by a neighbour’s bathroom extractor fan or cheap laptop charger which sadly I can’t do much about.On fellow CT member Victors advice I made a common mode choke in the feed line but those 3 channels still seem to be my nemesis.As you can imagine it gets on my nerves as it only suddenly appeared 2-3 months ago,I’ve thought about getting a QRM eliminator but as I’m using a ss 9900 it’s seems not possible because the lack of PTT connection between the two.As I’m not opening up this radio to do a South London bodge job.
Thanks for the advice and hopefully the QRM will disappear as their cheap Chinese charger explodes and the lights go out.
Tom. 26 CT 4029

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeSun Feb 20, 2022 6:46 pm

Chickenfoot@1987 wrote:
Thanks 43CT016,You right about using a vertical antenna without a lightening arrestor and one will be added ASAP.I saw knights selling one for £20 and is a lightening arrestor/anti static so I’ll go for that.The reasoning behind the extra grounding is just to try and eradicate some of the bad QRM I suffer from on channels 12,13 and 14 on the mid block.Nowhere else just those 3 channels.Everything is is S2 on a bad day and I can hear a fart at 1000 miles away..lol
Seriously its most probably caused by a neighbour’s bathroom extractor fan or cheap laptop charger which sadly I can’t do much about.On fellow CT member Victors advice I made a common mode choke in the feed line but those 3 channels still seem to be my nemesis.As you can imagine it gets on my nerves as it only suddenly appeared 2-3 months ago,I’ve thought about getting a QRM eliminator but as I’m using a ss 9900 it’s seems not possible because the lack of PTT connection between the two.As I’m not opening up this radio to do a South London bodge job.
Thanks for the advice and hopefully the QRM will disappear as their cheap Chinese charger explodes and the lights go out.
Tom. 26 CT 4029


Hi 👋🏻 

I wasn’t sure whether grounding would help but put 2 rods , copper both 4ft lng in my garden. 

One specifically for the 5/8 antenna I was using and the other for any static from the coax at the rig end. 

I wasn’t sure if they would do much although once all connected I noticed a S2 reduction in noise on my meter so I was pleased just with that. 

One evening I was just getting ready to start to play on the radio when I actually saw a curved spark or static charge moving down the coax towards my rig. 

It reached the ground connection I’d put on and disappeared to ground away from my radio!

So I can safely say it works and well worth the effort. 

Even if you don’t see anything it certainly protected my set up that day and will be on every setup I do !

All the best.

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2022 1:13 pm

Chickenfoot@1987 wrote:
Hi everyone,I’m using a Sirio 5/8 wave vertical antenna for homebase and as you you know their D.C grounded.I planning on adding an additional ground to see if this will help with QRM and any static build up even thought it has that fancy cage on the top that only attracts the magpies to sit on.I eventually found out why my tuning tip was slowly getting bent over to one side.
What’s the best way I should add an extra ground as I was thinking of adding a lightening arrestor or a lightening/surge protector and run a earth wire from that to a rod into the ground.What’s you thoughts on that idea or us there something better.
Cheers chaps and have a great weekend.
Tom.
26 CT 4029

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2022 4:26 pm

I've got a Sirio 5/8 GPE installed for 11 & 10m, as you say it is DC grounded at source and I found that adding additional grounding made no difference to the noise/QRM on my SS6900 or my old Uniden 100 & 200. Whereas my HF Vertical 80m to 10m white fibreglass jobbie is like a great big white straw in the sky sucking in QRM on the 80m down to 40m bands using my Alinco (licensed 'Ham') going horizontal LWEF kills some of the QRM.

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2022 10:56 pm

Hello DV1701,I hope your working Dx with your new Sirio GPE as it is a fantastic antenna for the money.Today I worked 158,3,34,29 and 1 divisions all on said Antenna and the propagation on 11 meters wasn’t as stable as I would have liked it to be (there one second and gone the next) But those QSO’s I don’t count.I added a common mode choke to my RG213/U and stuck a 3 feet copper rod into the ground,as you say for added extra grounding,I’ve even added clip on clam type Ferrites to all my cables and coax etc etc.Some days the bands seem ok with hardly any QRM and the next it could be S6-7 and your banging your head on the desk.Sadly it’s just a sign of the times and all we can do is try to guess and eliminate what could be causing the problem.One I did notice on my 6900N is that the RF gain is very sensitive,Maybe too sensitive and draws in every snap,crackle and pop.You find yourself forever adjusting the RF dial..
So let us know how you get on with the GPE,I’m sure your be surprised with what it’s capable of and try to live with the noises on radio modern life brings.

Cheers Tom.
26CT4029

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2022 8:06 am

Hi Tom. Not wanting to divert from the topic, but just wanted to jump in and ask what time yesterday you managed Ireland? Looks like there might of been a bit of short E skip I've missed. When back home late evenings last few days it has only been 1 and 3 divs in to my QTH and all too faint for me to work.

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2022 1:04 pm

Hello SangueG,It was 29SE366 at 6.25pm on 27.565 USB and his signal was strong at 5/9+10.The sporadic E is definitely upon us as I was also speaking too 3AT282 at 7.55pm,34AB020 at 7.12pm and 158DA711 at 9pm.
I can even hear 2 and 3 divisions past 12am,Don’t you just love Inter G..
Cheers Tom.
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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2022 1:29 pm

Thanks! And yes love a bit of inter G, when it falls on my QTH. ..going to have to try and get myself home a bit earlier I think Laughing

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PostSubject: 6900 DC HI   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeFri May 13, 2022 2:25 pm

Chickenfoot@1987 wrote:
Hi everyone,I’m using a Sirio 5/8 wave vertical antenna for homebase and as you you know their D.C grounded.I planning on adding an additional ground to see if this will help with QRM and any static build up even thought it has that fancy cage on the top that only attracts the magpies to sit on.I eventually found out why my tuning tip was slowly getting bent over to one side.
What’s the best way I should add an extra ground as I was thinking of adding a lightening arrestor or a lightening/surge protector and run a earth wire from that to a rod into the ground.What’s you thoughts on that idea or us there something better.
Cheers chaps and have a great weekend.
Tom.
26 CT 4029
Sorry mate - couldn't find the topic on the problem with the warning Dc Hi on the 6900.... like I said have same but to a lesser degree I think. There is a menu No.8 TDC which covers the setting aspect of the warning and the default is 10.5 to 16v. I don't know if that is adjustable with the software cable but it seems quite high anyway. You can enter the setting part and select BAT which will show the voltage transmitted on the display. I didn't have any success with a multi meter because my spike that gives the warning lasts for milliseconds. I hope this will help and sorry to put it on here (different subject) but couldn't find the original
Tom 26CT3366

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeFri May 13, 2022 2:52 pm

Thanks Blue Boy for the advice,At the moment until I find a solution I’m just using the radio with the engine not running.
Definitely static mobile..lol
Cheers Tom.
26CT4029

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2022 8:06 am

Id earth the mast not the antenna why turn it into a lightning rod
If you wanna help reduce noise as some one else said try an rf choke at the base of the aerial

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PostSubject: Re: Extra grounding   Extra grounding Icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2022 2:23 pm

Exactly right chazwozza,I self tapped a screw into the mast and ran an earth wire down the building and connected to a 3 feet copper grounding rod,Hanmered into the ground (That was the hard part)
Cheers Tom.
26CT4029
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