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 How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna

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PostSubject: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 12:07 am

Cut two lengths of wire 21.33 feet and join to a four screw plastic chocolate box connector.

Take the coax , cut enough shield off and join the braid and the centre core to other side of the chocolate box connector and cover with electrical tape

Use fishing line or string and get as high as you can perhaps use the back of the house and then a high point in the garden ,say a tree and tie off but keep the degrees greater than 45

Suspend and let it float flat side high enough from the washing line.

Made one today SWR 1:3 matched down to 1:1

Brilliant for DX working flat side giving you a cheap home brew antenna

Enjoy 26 CT 3543

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 1:55 am

The problem with string is contamination over time causing the string to conduct, particularly in wet conditions, best using a dog bone insulator at each end.  I'm  not familiar with CB Rigs, but from your description the 2830 may have an internal ATU, or you're using an external one.

For radios that don't have an internal ATU, and you also don't have an external ATU, you can tune the Inverted-V SWR merely by slackening off the tie down points at each end a little at a time and tying it off in the new position.  A normal dipole has a radiation resistance of 75 Ohms and would require a Balun at the centre to avoid the coax radiating as a part of the antenna, but by configuring as an Inverted-V this brings the radiation resistance down to 50 Ohms.  Also the Inverted-V is much better at low angle radiation for DX when compared to a dipole at the same height.

Good practice to have the ends of the Inverted-V wire radiator at least 2m above the ground, to avoid anyone touching the wire ends whilst you're in transmit, as these will have high voltages.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 6:32 am

Simple flat sided dipole or inverted Vs at about half wave above ground do make great skip shooters. I make use of choc blocks too for construction, makes it easy not just for attaching feed but also for adding extra wire to ends.

I'd question the length though. It would be more efficient to cut to resonance and skip the atu. It's a bit too long at 21.33' per leg even for 12m band.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 9:54 am

SangueG wrote:
Simple flat sided dipole or inverted Vs at about half wave above ground do make great skip shooters. I make use of choc blocks too for construction, makes it easy not just for attaching feed but also for adding extra wire to ends.

I'd question the length though. It would be more efficient to cut to resonance and skip the atu. It's a bit too long at 21.33' per leg even for 12m band.

Yeah, odd length, I wonder if it's a bit like the semi-mythical 43' vertical that is a 'match on any' band? 

Who uses feet anyway? 3.149m sounds a lot better Smile

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am

Always love hearing of antenna experiments and constructions especially when utilising materials available to hand.
(Used 'chocolate' block on more than one occasion myself. Wink )


Great also for others to add any information that may help also, remembering that they are offering assistance rather than any form of negative criticism.


Look forward to more. How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 1f44d 

All the best,
Victor

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 10:08 am

This link ( https://www.hamuniverse.com/dipivcal.html ) about inverted V's does explain why the length may not be as expected for a standard dipole. 

I use a vertical dipole for 10/11 and I am definitely going to try an inverted V just as soon as the weather warms up a bit. I'll try anything, experimentation as all part of the fun of radio.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 11:22 am

Nothing better that trying aerials but the station commander is getting a bit peed off as i don't like taking them down.
I use feet and inches but i am old lol.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 11:33 am

Alan Pilot wrote:
I use feet and inches but i am old lol.


I have to confess I always have a chuckle when I hear our American friends say things like “For a 20 metre dipole, you want an overall length of about 33 feet”.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 11:36 am

I am limited to just 2, as she calls it, 'poles', in the garden. I have a little leeway with what is on the poles. I think an inverted V might just be an acceptable extra,

I use imperial and metric and I'm old, we were taught both in primary school. I prefer metric for when I have to measure anything.
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 12:11 pm

Only got 4
Cobweb 7 band.
End-fed 80 to 10m.
Multi band vertical.
2M/70CM.
O and a 11m magmount sat on the bbq lol.
Good job we only have a small garden.
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 12:31 pm

Alan Pilot wrote:
Only got 4
Cobweb 7 band.
End-fed 80 to 10m.
Multi band vertical.
2M/70CM.

Exactly the same here, less the multi-band vertical, and my VHF/UHF is a triband with 23cm too.

Wife is unimpressed, and thanks to my mate winding her up, is now worried what she’ll come back to after her girls week away in Jan. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 1:07 pm

Halo for 50MHz
Vertical dipole for 28MHz  <----- will try an inverted V
Modified YouLoop for MW receive
1/4 wave vertical for 7MHz <----- will try to make multi-band
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 6:23 pm

Alan Pilot wrote:
Only got 4
Cobweb 7 band.
End-fed 80 to 10m.
Multi band vertical.
2M/70CM.
O and a 11m magmount sat on the bbq lol.
Good job we only have a small garden.

I am the station commander and that means whatever I want.
10metre mast with Create logperiodic for 6metres to 23cms
A Hustler 6BTV with 17metres and 65 radials.
A Spiderbeam 10metre alloy mast with cobweb at 8metres
80cms offset dish on a 3metre pole for QO-100
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 6:59 pm

Well I used to have a lot more antennas at my old QTH, but the XYL does not want a repeat of that, so everything will have to be mounted on the 20ft lattice tower, although I'm being allowed to erect a scaffold pole at the bottom of the garden, and use the old GPO Telephone Insulator on the house to support a random wire dipole tuned 160m to 10m by an SGC-235 on the tower, alongside a Diamond V2000 with a proper 6m radial kit for 6m/2m/70cm, and an ex-Police vertical folded dipole for 4m (may need an antenna switch for this), all driven by a Yaesu FT-847.

Allso on the tower will be a 40m Horizontal Dipole made from two Mobile Whips which I think are Watson WHF-40's for Packet using a even older Yaesu HF Transceiver (sorry I've forgotten the model number), a Diamond (model?) 2m/70cm Co-linear for APRS & GB3LH with a Duplexer to run on two radios at the same time.

Receive only will be a Satellite Dish for EUMETSAT encrypted Weather Satellite Data 24/7.

Have a Butternut HF-9V which supports 80m through to 6m, although with the extensive ground radial kit I used before, it could be ATU tuned to 160m, 60m, and 4m, but don't think it was that effective though.  I have radios in boxes I've forgotten I had, when the station starts being built I'm sure I'll rediscover them and get into trouble with the wife.

Would like an Elecraft K3 for the Butternut, but sneaking that in the house might be difficult, and the cat might be released from the bag when the Vertical appears in the grass...

As regards CB I think I'll go for a legal CB AM/FM/SSB mobile rig, and add an 11m Base Station Antenna to the Tower.  Not sure I want to operate mobile as yet, as I have a Yaesu FT-100D and plan to get an ATAS-120 for the car, but again have never really operated HF Mobile, always parked up somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 7:16 pm

That tower will look good.
Pictures when you get it sorted ????.
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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 7:58 pm

How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 20ft_o12

This is the bare tower, set in 2.25 cubic metres of concrete, and all hidden by new slabs being laid.

How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 2_25_c11

All that is visible is the six ground bolts that mount the tower..

May take until mid December to finish the groundwork, but will keep everyone up to date with piccies.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeWed Nov 24, 2021 9:57 pm

Some interesting feedback guys and its all good fun
When I put 11 meters in to one conversion chart it wanted me to make each element 27.33ft, even I knew that was wrong.On another site 21.3ft so we went with that , yes it needs cutting or bending over but I’m pretty pleased to see how it will work.

Sorry I’m old school too in feet and inches at the age of 57, lol

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeThu Nov 25, 2021 6:44 am

Nowt wrong with feet and inches.
But talking about the 36.0892 ft band wouldn't sound right lol.
Old school too and even older.
And then there is our Victor lol.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeThu Nov 25, 2021 6:49 am

Morning Mark. I am sure you will get it to work. You might even get some very low angle take off from it. I say 'might' as I don't use any modelling software, am a bit old school myself and just like to read up, cut to shape and just see how it works.

The length you have is a very strange length, wonder if the calculator is work correctly or incorrect value has been entered possibly? I'll post a scan below from an old book I have often referred back to that gives some length for the flat and v dipoles. You';ll need to go approx half way between the figures for the 10 and 12 band and gives overall lengths, so you need to just divide by 2 to get leg lengths. You can tell it's an old reference because as well as having measurements in feet, it also lists the v dimensions as being longer that the flat, which many online texts and calculators wrongly quote the other way around now (though height above ground and surroundings also affect length).

How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Vh10

I have no doubt you'll make some contacts though. The longest elements in my loft are for 20m, but the atu in my rig will match all the wires connected to the end of my coax to 40m, and even though it can't be greatly efficient, I have had a few contacts on that band using. Will be interesting to see how well your long dipole works, do give some feedback when you've played with it for a while, it will be good to know for future experiments.


Nice tower Wayne. I wouldn't even be allowed to mount a 1/2 wave silver rod at ground level *sighs*

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeThu Nov 25, 2021 8:21 am

A quick rattle through the old noggin of the numbers Mark - Coincatcher was given by an online calculator makes no sense unless the code utilised had errors such as the typical imperial to metric conversions.

If the 27.33ft he was originally given was 2.733m and then subtract the velocity factor of insulated wire you get perfect dimensions for an 11m dipole! Very Happy

There's quite a few online 'calculators' full of such coding/conversion errors which is perplexing for anyone let alone someone experimenting for the first time.

Still, it's great that everyone has offered a hand and I'm enjoying the banter with it. 


Imperial vs Metric? 
I still call CB frequencies 27MHz and have to pause to mention 11m, but then I remember radios marked in Kc/s and Mc/s! Very Happy
(Kilocycles per second and Megacycles per second.)

'Domestic' sets were marked as such and anything with Meters was a 'Foreign' radio set, (even when they tried marking 'Metres').

Plus Imperial measurements were much easier to calculate in your head, especially if you remembered the simple 12 inches is 1 foot and were good with fractions. Nowadays every pulls the calculator out even if it's an 'App' on their phone. How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 1f602 


Only recently I asked someone on air to QSY to VHF at 145.350MHz Simplex, with which they replied, "Is that two meters?"  Rolling Eyes


BTW - Loving your tower Wayne. How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 1f44d 
Round these parts the 'villagers' would be turning up with pitchforks and burning torches!! Under the guise of the 'Parish Council'.

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeThu Nov 25, 2021 8:32 am

Victor wrote:

Plus Imperial measurements were much easier to calculate in your head, especially if you remembered the simple 12 inches is 1 foot and were good with fractions. Nowadays every pulls the calculator out even if it's an 'App' on their phone. How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 1f602 

Jesus, how is it easier to work in denominations like 12, 3, 36, 1760, etc. rather than 100, 1000, etc.

I bet you prefer old money too?  Laughing 

I was taught metric at school, but my parents were imperial only, and in the 70's and 80's everything was measured in yards, gallons, pounds and ounces (Oh, yeah, 16,14, etc etc, not even bloody consistent in what weird number to use!) so I had to know both.

Give me metric any day of the week, especially for engineering.  20 thou vs. 0.5mm.

As for calculators, well, blame the education system for that...people can't do simple math in their head, or spell, but are experts in wokism and critical race theory.  What progress! Shocked   Rolling Eyes

Anyway, rant over, and I'll go back to being jealous about that tower!

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PostSubject: Re: How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna   How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna Icon_minitimeThu Nov 25, 2021 9:03 am

Ha! Ha! Ha! Very Happy

Still amazes me Jeff how people get worked up over Imperial measurements. Wink
(Then usually mention archaic historical measurement quantities.)

I'm on about the simple measurement and engineering process of it all, half of 9 foot is 4 foot 6 inches, half an inch is a simple quarter of an inch, 8th, 16th, 32nd, 64th, etc. etc.

Not much different than the 'Ham' 160m, 80m, 40m, 20m, etc. nice numbers for the mind. How to make a flat side inverted V wire antenna 1f44d 


Mind you when I worked in the semiconductor industry we worked from 3 inch slices to 5 inch then 7 inches....but then again we measured 'thickness' in metric microns and angstroms! Wink

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