1/2 wav or 5/8 wav

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 1/2 and 5/8 and is one better than the other or is that an old wives tale?
I might be getting another aerial so i wanted to make sure i don't get the wrong one.
Thanks

Hello Darren,

It is generally accepted that a 5/8th wave antenna will have the edge on a half wave, but it depends on what you are looking for. They have different angles of radiation and a 5/8th should favour DX when conditions allow. I use a half wave at home and have no problem working 20-30 miles locally and Europe wide when conditions allow. Either would work well on 11 meters.

73's Gary.

The 5/8 wave usualy has a larger DB Gain over the half wave antenna which is ment to add to the wattage of your radio to give a stronger output in signal strength.
Everyone knows that raising your antenna gives you a better signal in and out, and I remember an old saying way back 30 years or more that for every 10 feet you raise your antenna is the equivelant to a DB gain. True or not it does tend to help the signal.
Back to 5/8 vrs 1/2 waves I always looked for the 5/8 wave and to throw a spanner in the works an old Avanti Sigma 4 antenna was 7/8 wave and we all know how great they were for getting out.
There is also the size of the antenna, half waves as a rule are shorter in hight. The norm from days of old was 1/2 wave about 18 feet, 5/8 wave about 21 feet and 7/8 wave about 27 feet. My Gainmaster is 5/8 wave and is 24 feet.
But there will be guys who will be better at explaining in here than I am as I am just returning to the air myself after 30+ years and been on now a few weeks.

John 68CT045

GaryWilson wrote:

Hello Darren,

It is generally accepted that a 5/8th wave antenna will have the edge on a half wave, but it depends on what you are looking for. They have different angles of radiation and a 5/8th should favour DX when conditions allow. I use a half wave at home and have no problem working 20-30 miles locally and Europe wide when conditions allow. Either would work well on 11 meters.

73's Gary.

Hi Gary

I will be using it to talk to locals on fm and trying some dx if conditions allow. I'm surrounded by houses and the antenna will be on a short post connected to the washing line post so it won't be that high.
So looks like a 5/8 then
Thanks Gary

Master Virus wrote:

Hello Darren,

It is generally accepted that a 5/8th wave antenna will have the edge on a half wave, but it depends on what you are looking for. They have different angles of radiation and a 5/8th should favour DX when conditions allow. I use a half wave at home and have no problem working 20-30 miles locally and Europe wide when conditions allow. Either would work well on 11 meters.

73's Gary.

Hi Gary

I will be using it to talk to locals on fm and trying some dx if conditions allow. I'm surrounded by houses and the antenna will be on a short post connected to the washing line post so it won't be that high.
So looks like a 5/8 then
Thanks Gary

Hi Darren,  

If you have the Antron 99 which I believe is a 1/2 wave, there is always the option of upgrading the top section to a Thunderpole  A99 upgrade which is a 5/8 wave, which will give you the best of both worlds making it a 1/2 wave over a 5/8 wave and will increase db gain and local contacts.   Just another option for you !

Link is below for the upgrade.

http://www.kcb.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p61.html

73's


Mick

When it comes to these antennas, its not the length that matters, but the height to the part of the antenna where the "current node" is, which is about nine feet (or 3 meters) down from the tip of these antennas.  Essentially, the additional length of the 5/8 is a cheat to get you a little extra height, which is really what matters.  Put a smaller antenna at the same tip height and any difference between them disappears.

The additional height of the longer antenna will increase gain, and lower the angle of radiation.  However, most people significantly overstate the differences between these two antennas.  In most cases, their is at best a small difference.  As above, this is actually based on the antenna's height above the earth.  The higher the antennas are mounted, the less of a difference you will see in both gain and angle of radiation.  You practically have to mount these antennas on the earth itself to see anywhere near the difference that some people claim.


The DB

Ultimitmale wrote:

The 5/8 wave usualy has a larger DB Gain over the half wave antenna which is ment to add to the wattage of your radio to give a stronger output in signal strength.
Everyone knows that raising your antenna gives you a better signal in and out, and I remember an old saying way back 30 years or more that for every 10 feet you raise your antenna is the equivelant to a DB gain. True or not it does tend to help the signal.
Back to 5/8 vrs 1/2 waves I always looked for the 5/8 wave and to throw a spanner in the works an old Avanti Sigma 4 antenna was 7/8 wave and we all know how great they were for getting out.
There is also the size of the antenna, half waves as a rule are shorter in hight. The norm from days of old was 1/2 wave about 18 feet, 5/8 wave about 21 feet and 7/8 wave about 27 feet. My Gainmaster is 5/8 wave and is 24 feet.
But there will be guys who will be better at explaining in here than I am as I am just returning to the air myself after 30+ years and been on now a few weeks.

John 68CT045

I started on the cb back in 1978 when i was eleven and i've had two antennas. A dv 27 that was on a biscuit tin in the attic.
Although it was a good antenna for copying people local it wasn't good for dx work and the amount of times i could hear them but could never get back to them.
I managed to get 8 metal sheets and i put them up the attic and i got out a lot further but it still wasn't enough.
I would hear contacts and my dad would say give him a shout and i tried but it was a no go.
My dad said why aren't you getting him? i said because the antenna isn't big enough, so he said see if anyone is selling one and ask if they can deliver it?
I managed to get one a Mighty Magnum 3 for £20 and my dad put me the brackets up just under the guttering.
I got a twenty foot scaffolding pole and put the antenna on top and checked the swr and it never even moved.
My dad said try the new antenna out then so i put a call out and got about twenty stations coming back to me it was causing a massive pile up.
My dad said bloody hell i see what you mean by a bigger antenna! After that day if i called someone i usually got them straight away.
French Spanish Italians were so easy to get i couldn't believe it and so i tried to get stations that other people wanted to get.
I can't tell you what they were in wavelengths 1/4 1/2 5/8 because all i cared about was if they worked or not.
I'm just returning myself and the last time i was on was 1983 because of my girlfriend so i didn't have a lot of time spare with work and girlfriend.
I wish i could have my antenna up high but it its windy where i am and where i use to live was at the very top and there was a field behind that sloped up so i didn't supper that bad with wind.
But down here at the bottom i get a lot of wind plus i don't know how people are going to react plus my neighbours daughter but will cross that bridge when i come to that.
I remember a lot of people in Halifax and surrounding areas using the Avanti Sigma 4.
Yes it was a good antenna that got really far out but most i knew that used it were just normal cb'ers not dx'ers like us.
It will be a 5/8's something antenna

Merci beaucoup John 68CT045 mon ami

Darren, for me it was the price of a good antenna that scared the me the most, £!50+ for antenna wow. I was lucky and got the gainmaster from a member from here believe it or not lol. I was on eBay and seen this antenna at a great price and also bought a Homebase CB at the same time. Downside was the Homebase rig was too big to sit along side my PC and two monitors and did a trade with my brother. The Antenna was a gamble as I heard a lot of breaking issues in strong winds. My last antenna before going QRT 30+ years ago was a Shakespear Super Big Stick, I loved it, same kinda hight as the Antron 99 but only a two section fiberglass antenna with the same DBI rating as the Avanti Sigma 4 with preset swr and no tuning to be done. So my Siggy 4 came down as I was having gama rod problems and ooh it was on a 12ft pole on my chimney and yes I blasted out all over. So when I was looking to come back on air I was looking for the Shakespear Antenna I had many years ago and couldn't find one and took the gamble with this Gainmaster.
The Gainmaster has very slim sections, four of them (Gainmaster 1/2 wave has three sections) and the Antenna feed is run up through the center of all four sections and meets a cap that the tip of the feed is screwed onto to hold the feed vertical with allowing a small slack of an inch and a half. Its on my chimney doing fine so far and I am the strongest signal from my town when using the SS6900N on FM full rf power from the set (40w).

Look forward to see and hear what antenna you deside to go for. I youtube everything now, I used to use google untill I found better to see things in motion on youtube.

Good luck Darren

[quote="mickyboy"]

Master Virus wrote:

Hello Darren,

It is generally accepted that a 5/8th wave antenna will have the edge on a half wave, but it depends on what you are looking for. They have different angles of radiation and a 5/8th should favour DX when conditions allow. I use a half wave at home and have no problem working 20-30 miles locally and Europe wide when conditions allow. Either would work well on 11 meters.

73's Gary.

Hi Gary

I will be using it to talk to locals on fm and trying some dx if conditions allow. I'm surrounded by houses and the antenna will be on a short post connected to the washing line post so it won't be that high.
So looks like a 5/8 then
Thanks Gary

Hi Darren,  

If you have the Antron 99 which I believe is a 1/2 wave, there is always the option of upgrading the top section to a Thunderpole  A99 upgrade which is a 5/8 wave, which will give you the best of both worlds making it a 1/2 wave over a 5/8 wave and will increase db gain and local contacts.   Just another option for you !

Link is below for the upgrade.

http://www.kcb.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p61.html

73's


Mick[/quot  

When i was ordering my equipment i was asked if i wanted the upgrade to the Antron because a guy at Knights said you're better off getting it as it compliments it.
Thanks mickyboy

The DB wrote:

When it comes to these antennas, its not the length that matters, but the height to the part of the antenna where the "current node" is, which is about nine feet (or 3 meters) down from the tip of these antennas.  Essentially, the additional length of the 5/8 is a cheat to get you a little extra height, which is really what matters.  Put a smaller antenna at the same tip height and any difference between them disappears.

The additional height of the longer antenna will increase gain, and lower the angle of radiation.  However, most people significantly overstate the differences between these two antennas.  In most cases, their is at best a small difference.  As above, this is actually based on the antenna's height above the earth.  The higher the antennas are mounted, the less of a difference you will see in both gain and angle of radiation.  You practically have to mount these antennas on the earth itself to see anywhere near the difference that some people claim.


The DB

I will try and get higher later but just at the moment it will be lowish until people get use to it.
Then it will start to go up a little higher each week.
Thanks DB

Master Virus wrote:

I will try and get higher later but just at the moment it will be lowish until people get use to it.
Then it will start to go up  a little higher each week.
Thanks DB

I have used that method with someone before to keep his wife quiet. The other method was to put it up and see how long it takes others to notice. You would be surprised at how long it takes some people to notice such things. Put a fan dipole on a friends roof in an inverted V configuration, thing looked ugly as hell, but it took his wife over a month to notice it and complain. It is still up.

In my experience, for most people to notice antenna's they don't expect to see, they almost have to be looking for them.


The DB

Ultimitmale wrote:

Darren, for me it was the price of a good antenna that scared the me the most, £!50+ for antenna wow. I was lucky and got the gainmaster from a member from here believe it or not lol. I was on eBay and seen this antenna at a great price and also bought a Homebase CB at the same time. Downside was the Homebase rig was too big to sit along side my PC and two monitors and did a trade with my brother. The Antenna was a gamble as I heard a lot of breaking issues in strong winds. My last antenna before going QRT 30+ years ago was a Shakespear Super Big Stick, I loved it, same kinda hight as the Antron 99 but only a two section fiberglass antenna with the same DBI rating as the Avanti Sigma 4 with preset swr and no tuning to be done. So my Siggy 4 came down as I was having gama rod problems and ooh it was on a 12ft pole on my chimney and yes I blasted out all over. So when I was looking to come back on air I was looking for the Shakespear Antenna I had many years ago and couldn't find one and took the gamble with this Gainmaster.
The Gainmaster has very slim sections, four of them (Gainmaster 1/2 wave has three sections) and the Antenna feed is run up through the center of all four sections and meets a cap that the tip of the feed is screwed onto to hold the feed vertical with allowing a small slack of an inch and a half. Its on my chimney doing fine so far and I am the strongest signal from my town when using the SS6900N on FM full rf power from the set (40w).

Look forward to see and hear what antenna you deside to go for. I youtube everything now, I used to use google untill I found better to see things in motion on youtube.

Good luck Darren

I'm using the wife's office computer table we bought when she was at college for animals care.
It's got my music studio on it and the rig is right at the front with the power supply and the amp.
Really it wants its own table because my little music studio takes up all the room and i'm scared the wife will catch the power supply wires or the coax and pull it off.
I read about your radio and it's a nice little set that's certainly going to get you out.
I've got the crt ss 9900 but i think to be honest its got too much power and i'm sort of scared because i don't want the finals getting hot.
The antennas you mentioned i'd hear people that used them and they always gave me strong signals even though they were miles away.
I do a lot of watching youtube videos and also read google reviews and also go on great websites like this.
I love this site because these guys will tell you if something is decent or it sucks and won't steer you wrong.
They must get fed up with us newbies asking the same questions over and over again?
But they answer them because of their love of this site and love of cb and ham radio.
Where you like me come back on and go oh crap! 40 channel cb yeah ok, export? what the hell is that? ten metre radio?
Its like i was frozen for thirty years wake up and have to learn how to use the three sea shells
I will let you know what antennas i decide to go for and thanks for the reply.
Thanks again Ultimitmale

Master Virus wrote:

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 1/2 and 5/8 and is one better than the other or is that an old wives tale?
I might be getting another aerial so i wanted to make sure i don't get the wrong one.
Thanks

 

One has slightly higher gain at lower angles which is better for DX but the reality is that in actual use you'd not be able to tell the difference. Hell you'll be hard pushed to notice much difference between a 1/4 wave, 1/2 wave and 5/8 wave other than for the fact if you've got someone nearby on a hill above you they'll hear you better on the 1/4 wave than the other two.

Quote :

If you have the Antron 99 which I believe is a 1/2 wave, there is always the option of upgrading the top section to a Thunderpole  A99 upgrade which is a 5/8 wave, which will give you the best of both worlds making it a 1/2 wave over a 5/8 wave and will increase db gain and local contacts.

No it won't. It isn't a 5/8 wave length long no matter how much wire is coiled up in that section and it does not make the antenna into a 1/2 wave over 5/8 or vice versa. What it does do is move the current maximum up the antenna a bit which increases lower angle radiation a bit not that you'll notice. It is a complete and utter waste of time and money. Had one, couldn't tell the difference.

Like much in the CB world when it comes to antennas it's nothing more than a wallet emptier and any gain reported is almost certainly either only existing in the mind of the person who bought it or if there has been an improvement it is down to something else such as an increase in height, a change of coax or even fixing a faulty connection they didn't know existed.

When it comes to antennas you're far far better choosing them on their build quality and how they'll survive high winds than any marketing bollox about it being a magic antenna that hears what no other antenna can hear or it being a vertical monopole with fantasy claims of gain.

I wrote in another post:

Antennas open a can of worms and search for the holy grail quest, any antenna is always better than no antenna.

I'll stick to that statement

When shelling out money for bits of aluminium tube, we have a vested interest, it cost flipping money!
When it doesn't perform as well as expected we're again upset as it cost flipping money.
Someone suggests something "better", you buy it and if left disappointed you blame them for wasting your flipping money.
(Unless it turns out great, can't thank them enough and "xxxxx" brand becomes the "best")

So it carries on ad infinitum.....

Delve into the murky technical world of antennas and you'll be left perplexed at the complexity of it all!

Me, bit of wire thrown up in the loft
Some call it an inverted V due to the way the wire is laid out, but it's still a bit of wire.
Rearrange the wire and I could have a dipole, moxon, sloper, Yagi all manner of names, shapes and claims.
It's still a bit of wire, (or even tubing to improve the bandwidth)

The important bit is.......I have an antenna.

Beats the hell out of no antenna.


We can't all sling up "bits of wire" so go with your gut feeling and budget in mind, as many have pointed out there isn't much difference anyway.

All the best,
Victor

Cheers Victor

c wrote:

Master Virus wrote:

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 1/2 and 5/8 and is one better than the other or is that an old wives tale?
I might be getting another aerial so i wanted to make sure i don't get the wrong one.
Thanks

 

One has slightly higher gain at lower angles which is better for DX but the reality is that in actual use you'd not be able to tell the difference. Hell you'll be hard pushed to notice much difference between a 1/4 wave, 1/2 wave and 5/8 wave other than for the fact if you've got someone nearby on a hill above you they'll hear you better on the 1/4 wave than the other two.

Quote :

If you have the Antron 99 which I believe is a 1/2 wave, there is always the option of upgrading the top section to a Thunderpole  A99 upgrade which is a 5/8 wave, which will give you the best of both worlds making it a 1/2 wave over a 5/8 wave and will increase db gain and local contacts.

No it won't. It isn't a 5/8 wave length long no matter how much wire is coiled up in that section and it does not make the antenna into a 1/2 wave over 5/8 or vice versa. What it does do is move the current maximum up the antenna a bit which increases lower angle radiation a bit not that you'll notice. It is a complete and utter waste of time and money. Had one, couldn't tell the difference.

Like much in the CB world when it comes to antennas it's nothing more than a wallet emptier and any gain reported is almost certainly either only existing in the mind of the person who bought it or if there has been an improvement it is down to something else such as an increase in height, a change of coax or even fixing a faulty connection they didn't know existed.

When it comes to antennas you're far far better choosing them on their build quality and how they'll survive high winds than any marketing bollox about it being a magic antenna that hears what no other antenna can hear or it being a vertical monopole with fantasy claims of gain.

I've heard some stories about antennas bending and snapping! I understand about buying a decent one that's going to stand up to our winters.
Thanks for taking the time to reply Northern Crusader.

Have you thought about a T2LT antenna ?

Very simple wire antenna, that you can hang in a tree, or use a non metal telescopic pole to mount it on.

Loads of plans on the internet / youtube about how to make it. Or purchase a ready made one on ebay.

I've had excellent results using both the T2LT and a DRX111 5/8 wave wire antenna.

Quote :

Have you thought about a T2LT antenna ?

Very simple wire antenna, that you can hang in a tree, or use a non metal telescopic pole to mount it on.

Loads of plans on the internet / youtube about how to make it. Or purchase a ready made one on ebay.

I've had excellent results using both the T2LT and a DRX111 5/8 wave wire antenna.

I've seen them on Youtube videos and they seem to work very well and yes i have thought about making one.
I would love to design one that would work inside a house that would get out just as far as an outside antenna.
You only need that one crazy idea to work and you're laughing.
Thanks for the reply Z1100A2

I recently lost my Thunderpole 1/2 wave due to fatigue and the weather,have bought a sigma 5/8 to replace it but having problems getting the swr down, can't get below 2.5 on FM at 40w but on AM at 10w getting 1.5:1. Am I doing something wrong or is the antenna faulty ,my half wave was up for 3 years with no problems.Cheers Des 26CT4194

Hi Des, 5/8ths without large ground planes of about 2.6M each (x4) or many shorter ones (16) will be a little trickier to get the SWR down. As I understand it long radials or the ground itself if ground mounted are part of the matching for a 5/8th wave. I never managed either and is one reason why I favour 1/2 waves.

A well designed and built 5/8 wave antenna can be very effective when they are set up well. And well means plenty of radials (they are after all form of ground plane antenna)

A 1/2 wave vertical is not a ground plane antenna it is different in that it has low current and high voltage at the feed point making it less susceptible to common mode currents. And it generally does not need a ground plane. It can use a metal pole for return currents/counterpoise if there are any of significance.

1/2 waves are generally less fussy on install. I measured 395mm (mean length between 10m and 11m bands as indicated by the instruction sheet) for the top part of a a Sirio 1/2 GPS and the SWR is 1.5:1 across the entire 11m and 10m band.

The gain of a 5/8 wave is not realized in the real world unless you understand how the antenna works technically with some detail.

Also I think the Thunderpole 1/2 wave is a generic  UK factory made silver rod so you have basically bought the same antenna again as a 5/8 so it is likely to fail again. I believe the UK silver rods need a re-design. The Sirio is superior, thicker copper coil, better aluminium, stronger.

The UK silver rod coil is made from very thin copper wire, it is very light, that's only good for portable work. Some guy online says they are made from "Bacofoil" which always makes me chuckle.

I suggest pack it up send it back and say it does not SWR and buy a Sirio GPS 1/2.

If you are interested in some detail:

https://charlietangodxgroup.forumotion.com/t6617-probably-only-ever-buy-1-2-waves-for-10m-and-11m

Good luck with it.

Thanks for that buddy, will give it another go but if no good will get another 1/2 wave. Been looking at the Sirio as a replacement. Cheers, Des