Is FT8 really 'killing' Ham Radio?

Hi All,

Hope you're keeping well and above all enjoying your radio.  

Haven't bored you all for a while with my drivel so my apologies in advance but here goes....


I still often hear in conversation how FT8 is 'killing' Ham Radio and usually from those that don't use such modes or have never even tried them. Often it seems quite true in that you can scan around any one of the Ham bands and hear no transmissions but there is always that whale-song sound of FT8.

Now I tried FT8 myself a while back and although I didn't personally find any 'fun' in it many others have had great success. My initial fun was trying to get the whole shebang running on a 40 year old HF set and an early 2000's PC running Linux, but after that the lack of 'vocal' communication and mouse clicking saw my initial enthusiasm dwindle.

Others however have had great success with many worldwide contacts filling their log books often with less than ideal setups or band conditions and are equally rewarded with a QRZ certificate or other such. Got to be a boon especially for new operators or older ops who now have a diminished setup let alone those that enjoy the maybe 'technical' side of the hobby. Of course others blessed with ideal or better setups may also enjoy it too, but not all of us have the property size for a full sized loop for 160m.


Now I managed to find some raw data to look more closely into this from Michael's G7VJR Clublog site.
( https://g7vjr.org/ )

If you take a look an initial graph he provides it looks grim....



It initially looks like FT8 quickly becomes the dominant mode of transmission and that everything else dies down.

But that's not the real story and those of you maybe in an occupation that has to stare 'interestingly' at such graphs during dreaded meetings will see through it. That's right, the Y-axis scale is in percent rather than real numbers.

Now, I was going to analyse all this, (because I'm one of those weird geeks! ), but luckily someone else has already done this and written a rather eloquent article on it.


This can be found here :-

https://vu2nsb.com/ft8-ssb-phone-cw/

Worth reading through if you're interested and there is also some other great information around his site.



So if you read the article in all reality FT8 is actually providing opportunities for Ham operators everywhere and filling the airwaves with more signals than before!

All good in my book and bless everyone of them.....even if I don't partake myself.


Enjoy your radio no matter what aspect of it you like and maybe take a peek at something 'new' once in a while.

Just keep filling those airwaves with your signals.  


All the best,
Victor

Only a 11m station myself, but nice to read what the Big boys and girls play with, nice yo hear from you Victor.

Ha! Ha!   'Big Boys'

Good to see you Glen and hope you are keeping well mate.  


Yeah, been a while since I let out some verbal drivel but couldn't help myself. All done for the radio interest of course. Hope you haven't been too cold in your part of the world...has that Sun come back up yet?

FT8 is allowing propagation paths to be tested and systems to be perfected at times of low solar activity, that's a good thing. I've learned a lot about 28 & 50MHz propagation over the last few months.

The amount of SpE around at this time of year was talked of but I had never experienced it before.

Whether the level of use persists when we are properly into this solar cycle remains to be seen. As FT8 only uses 3KHz of spectrum on each band it could get very difficult to use/need more spot frequencies to be used. Whatever happens, it's hardly taking over the spectrum. At VHF and up then concentrating activity in a small bandwidth is a good thing.

Overall digital modes are good for radio. Must brush up my CW as sadly lacking in speed for having a QSO these days.

Unless CB users want to take it up then it's no threat to them and I understand that JSCall is becoming popular on CB. I need to investigate it further myself.

.

Hi Roger,

There's definitely some interesting aspects to FT8 as many will attest to and although I mentioned that I don't 'partake' I have utilised it with PSKReporter to check out experimental antenna setups. The main point of my posting was to investigate certain negative claims and pleasantly surprised with the data I found. 

I'm all for any radio activity no matter what the mode of transmission and even though my own Morse isn't up to speed I still really enjoy listening to a good clean signal with a solid 'fist'.

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Hi Wayne,

Isn't being a 'grumpy old man' one of the qualifying aspects to be a radio Ham?
Just kidding there but have been to a few 'clubs' where everyone seems to fit the bill!

I'm with you in as far as enjoying what you want to do. Bemoaning it makes you look like some idiot screaming in the shopping aisles that there is no place for 'Marmite' declaring how disgusting it is whilst setting up a makeshift cordon. 

Definitely each to their own.

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All the best to you both,
Victor

Just get on the air.
Use whatever you have and whatever mode you like.

I have done a few different modes in the past, HSCW, SSB, DSTAR, FM, Packet and now FT8/FT4.

FT8 actually got my interest back into amateur radio and I also have a QO-100 station which
I find really interesting working through a geostationary satellite, mainly SSB on there for me.

An interesting read, thank you Victor. The conclusions and closing comments at the bottom of the vu2nsb analysis link sums up the findings well if there is anyone who doesn't want to read all, and I guess there is the answer is.. No.

Ham radio has such a variety of sub interests to offer that I can't ever see just one particular "mode" ever killing it. There is something under the radio hat for everyone, and almost everyone will never be deeply interested in every aspect.

I could liken it to one of my other pastimes "Geocaching" where again there is something for everyone. Some people enjoy finding as many as they can, usually chasing down easy ones to get their numbers up. There are those who enjoy puzzle caches, having to solve puzzles at home to find the coordinates or even puzzles out in the field. Some of us like extreme physical/dangerous ones that may need special equipment to reach. And there's a small amount who enjoy 5/5's which involve both very complex puzzles and very arduous terrains, of which take a lot of time to place and longer for seekers to solve and find. There are many other types and awards to collect too. But like radio, almost no one does all, and those who do have areas they prefer.. e.g. a 5/5 hunter will rarely brag about their overall find total as most of their time is focused on finding the few extreme ones. There are many numbers chasers and have been for years, but every other aspect of it continues to have a strong following.

As Wayne has said, just enjoy the hobby. Whatever frequency or mode is your preference you'll be sure to find you are not the only one with that favorite and will be someone out there somewhere to communicate with whatever the frequency or mode the masses appear to be using.

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I started to waffle again, sorry.

Hi Mike,

I agree with you completely and 'just get on the air' is a marvelous mindset.  


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Hi Neal,

Just glad that I could raise some interest and find others with the same thoughts.  

I remember reading your QRZ and looking up further into geocaching, all interesting stuff and just wish I was physically able to partake such interests. I think my own enjoyment comes from seeing others enjoy what they do, that passionate drive that we can excel at. It's just a shame that some almost religiously condone someone else's interests just because they are different from their own especially when it concerns 'hobby' interests.

I'm all for seeing everyone enjoying what they do so long as it isn't to the detriment of someone else.

Don't you worry about 'waffle' either, I'm just as bad but love to read it from others too!

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All the best,
Victor

CB, Ham or Data, it's all Rock and Roll to me..

Just happy that we have the opportunity to do all of this. The Kit's plentiful, expertise is available here and on the web, probably the best of times in respect to Radio.

There is something for almost everyone in Geocaching Victor, some are even placed specifically with those who have limited mobility But, I'll try and keep short on more focused on topic for a moment..

Data modes, and even CW now with modern tech, can be a great asset for those whose hearing is not too great or even complete hearing loss. For an example, I have watched my G90 decode CW in silence whilst my better half has been asleep. My hearing is far from being at its peak from listening to loud music and working around loud machines a good part of my life. I can see that in years to come that being able to use data will be blessing to some who struggle to hear.

I am not going to jump on the bandwagon right this instance, but like you Victor, I will probably have a little go with it in the not too distant future just so I know how to set up equipment for.

work of the devil !! - ruining the hobby ! - passing fad like packet radio  !! - not been the same since they banned spark gap !! - hurrumph !!        

Hello All 

I have to say I tried FT8 for about 18 months was exciting the first few months but then the novelty wore off, I found that there was very little challenge in it to be honest in my opinion anyway. Too easy to get contacts and next to no interaction, I suppose I’m old school and enjoy the chat especially DX chat that I have to work for. I can see what people like about it as it can rack up your contacts too exotic places extremely quickly propogation is really not overly important as it is with phone communication. As I said have tried it liked it for awhile and maybe will go back to it. Is it killing amateur radio I don’t know about killing it I would say it has reduced the amount of phone activity on the ham bands  that is for sure, but moving forward the next big thing will come along the propogation will fire up once again and all will be happy in the world.

Take Care

43CT015

Steve

Hi Steve,

Good to hear your views and thanks for posting your input.

It's definitely not a mode that would float everyone's boat myself included but many people do enjoy it and are more than happy with the operational characteristics and sense of reward. It's certainly popular! As with every aspect of Amateur Radio and said many times before there are so many paths of interest to take which is what for me makes it all fun and interesting. We can all find something we like.  

The data shows that in reality FT8 is adding to the signals on the bands and let's not forget that those who FT8 usually operate other modes too. (Sometimes at the same time!) I'm sure as we ramp up the next solar cycle we'll see the usual increase in higher band activity and maybe adding to the phone modes but it will also be a boon to digital mode operations too.

I may not like every chocolate in the tin, but sure am glad that there are so many choices.


Thanks again Steve and all the very best to you,
Victor

I used it for a while. Found it easy to use while I was working. Did get bored with it. Killing ham radio?  No, I don't think so, in fact, I bet it got a lot of the mike shy guys that do not use code onto the amateur bands. I was always surprised by the amount of people that got their ticket, yet never talk on the radio. 

If ya don't like it, don't use it.  I will set it up again one day, just as another mode. 

I did enjoy RTTY back in the 80's on me speccy and 2m SSB.

FT8 is old hat, all the cool kiddies are using FT4

FT4 love it.

Ft modes tend to be used by those that cant have decent antennas good for them etc but i doubt its killing anything just another mode

Some big dxers use it, brilliant for poor conditions.