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 Question about aerial law.

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PaulGray
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PostSubject: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2021 8:37 pm

Dunno if it's just the area I'm in (Skegness) but there are a lot of 'low key' aerials whose tips are just poking about about the roof lines.

Talking to a ham friend, the guess was the operators didn't want to fall foul of the planning laws.

Planning laws? For CB Aerials?

OK, putting up a 20 meter tower might be a little extreme in a built up area but surely there aren't laws about sticking a 1/2 wave pole above the roof line.

Or am I missing something.

Paul Gray
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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeFri Apr 30, 2021 9:46 pm

Planning Laws? For aerials/antennas?

Yep......

https://www.quotatis.co.uk/advice/regulations/aerial-satellite/i-need-planning-permission-aerials/

Permitted development rights do come with some caveats.


There's a quick FAQ available on the RSGB website :-

https://rsgb.org/main/faq-2/planning-faq/


There's loads of information available via the old t'internet but some read like a solicitors wet dream. Wink


A few members here have applied for planning permission and stuck up quite large antennas so may be of more help. Others just throw them up with a more cavalier approach....nice if you get away with it but it only takes one 'concerned' neighbour, a local councillor or some other busy body to throw a spanner in the works!

I've got mine hidden in the loft space, (Zig-zagged fan dipole arrays), which did me well as a SWL short wave listener and work surprisingly well transmitting with my shiny new Ham licence. The spanner in my works is the new EMF regulations and the fact that my neighbour has converted their loft into a bedroom - now 'technically' I can't s*dding  well use them! Evil or Very Mad

I can however use whatever 'temporary' or 'mobile' antenna I like. Looks like I'll be throwing up a mahoosive carp pole every so often in the garden with an antenna attached. So long as none of the neighbours count the amount of 'days' I have the antenna up for.


It was easier 'back in the day' Paul, everyone had an antenna up especially with the 80's CB craze.

Just that nowadays people don't have better things to do and the internet to 'look things up' or make 'complaints' to!!! Rolling Eyes

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PaulGray
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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 5:41 am

OMG! Beam me back in time someone!
That solves the question.
Yet it creates two problems.

I was going to plonk my shiny 1/2 wave pole on the eves of the house but, on checking with 'radio friendly' neighbors, a couple of them (Hams and CB'ers) were forced to take down non TV aerials on their chimneys on the estate because of "the estate neighbor from hell" aka a UK version of a Karen with connections with people in low places i.e. the planning department.

I knew I shouldn't have left living on a boat!

SWMBO is going to be well pleased (not) as the bracket I bought for it is mounted and won't be used.
Question about aerial law. Swmbobaton

So, my options in my high density (Karen watch area) is a garden mount.
I can feel the pain already.

Thanks for the Intel Victor. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 6:53 am

It's all a bit of a minefield ain't it!! 

I might come across as one of those caring, courteous, considerate neighbours with my antenna planning but in all reality I could well do without facing any cr*p. Wink


We have 'Karen' neighbours also and being in a village means we have a bunch of self righteous sods known as the parish council. Along with the 'neighbourhood watch' it can sometimes be a fun, fun, fun place to live. People round here often have to fight like mad to put a velux window in the loft yet others seem to breeze through the planning process by extending their house by four more rooms! I suppose it depends on who's back you're scratching.  Rolling Eyes

My own CB antenna is an inverted V dipole in the loft, useless for local work but did come into it's own for a bit of skip action. Considering I have no real local CB traffic it was a fair compromise for me but may not be for others. Now with the EMF directive I might lose my lower Ham bands as these are the antennas spanning my whole loft and nearest to my neighbours loft conversion. (Sassing, frassing - didn't make one objection when their planning application fell through my door which in hindsight is a kick in the teeth! Not their fault though.)

......so I've got to figure something out or choose another 'hobby'.

Yeah right! Very Happy

Took me 30 odd years to come back to the hobby and I even went as far as getting my 'ticket' which I ain't throwing away now! I'll just have to be a bit more inventive with my antenna setups that's all.


Of courses, there are always the 'go mobile' suggestions....

...so long as you drive, aren't housebound with a disability or love sitting in a freezing cold car on a dark hilltop shouting fruitlessly on the radio for hours on end. (Just kidding, some people do well with mobile setups but I'm just painting the whole picture here. Wink)


I wish you well with it all Paul. You'll have to let us know how you get on. Question about aerial law. 1f44d 


Me? I'm gonna look at temporary setups in the garden for now. Hmmm, G.O.T.A. gardens on the air. Could become the next 'thing'. Smile


All the best,
Victor

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SangueG
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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 9:25 am

Hi Paul. Like Victor I have an inverted V in the loft at the moment for skip. It really is useless for local though, I can just get out to a village 7 miles away. I do get one contact very well about 25 miles away, but have learned that his home antenna is on the flat side too which explains that one Smile

One suggestion I would have for an outdoor antenna you could possibly get away with is.. mounting a 1/4 wave steel whip on the end of your house at the top of roof apex, and run 2 wires down the rafters (could even put inside facia boards etc) for the ground plane. One of those whips are only half the height of a half wave and being so thin are a lot less inconspicuous. Wouldn't have quite the edge on performance of a half wave, but would probably outperform one mounted below the roof line for local work. I think Mower Junkie on utube set one one of those once if you want to get some ideas.

I can't do the above unfortunately as my house is terraced Crying or Very sad

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 11:39 am

if you have planning issues think about wire antennas ,dipoles, inverted V or end fed, these can be almost invisible if placed behind your house, I've been using a efhw, running from the back of the house to a tree and not one neighbour has spotted it. take a look on YouTube how the Americans in HOA get round this problem.
good luck
mark 26ct3433

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 2:06 pm

Hi Victor.
I used to run a half wave wire inverted V under the eaves.
Back in the early 70's the skip was a wonder to behold and 6 watts AM carried a long way.

Except, that was when I could talk and WALK!
Now, at best, I hobble, and ladders are horrible shaky scary things.

As for the neighbors?
Everyone's your friend when their rents due.
Which is probably why I'm an antisocial git today.
And why the fence is 2.4 meters high between them and me.

Yet, if you are really worried about emf, isn't your main aerial a 5/8 fire stick on a biscuit tin?
As for that antenna switch beneath the desk? Na, that's not connected to anything else.

After that form filling out becomes easy. Laughing

That is one thing I like about the Radio Amateur licensing.
You are allowed to experiment.

As most experiments are temporary in nature, exactly what was the problem again with that inverted V you are trialing?
Meanwhile, it's conduit burying time out to my newly planted 8 foot pole.
Pictures will follow.


PaulGray

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 2:13 pm

Thanks for your thoughts SangueG and Markone.

Having just shelled out for a half wave pole, it's going up in the garden and I'm going to tell 'Karen' it's a data collecting device for measuring the effects of global warming.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSat May 01, 2021 3:07 pm

Now i do like that idea.
"data collecting device for measuring the effects of global warming"

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSun May 02, 2021 2:40 pm

PaulGray wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts SangueG and Markone.

Having just shelled out for a half wave pole, it's going up in the garden and I'm going to tell 'Karen' it's a data collecting device for measuring the effects of global warming.

ROFL. You'll probably get planning permission from the council if you put that on the form.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSun May 02, 2021 2:49 pm

PaulGray wrote:
Dunno if it's just the area I'm in (Skegness) but there are a lot of 'low key' aerials whose tips are just poking about about the roof lines.

Talking to a ham friend, the guess was the operators didn't want to fall foul of the planning laws.

Planning laws? For CB Aerials?

OK, putting up a 20 meter tower might be a little extreme in a built up area but surely there aren't laws about sticking a 1/2 wave pole above the roof line.

Or am I missing something.

Paul Gray

I've been recently looking on the council website here in Leeds at this exact thing on antenna for radio. From what I read I don't need planning permission if the antenna is 1m in length or smaller and it can't stick up more than 60cm from the highest point on the property usually a chimney. 

I imagine it is the same or similar elsewhere in the UK. This may be why you only see antennas sticking slightly above the property line in the area you live. So it pretty much means we need planning permission for a majority of radio antennas unfortunately that's provided you get permission in the first place from the property owner if you're a renter.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeSun May 02, 2021 3:16 pm

An aerial 1m in length won't get very far.


Last edited by Alan Pilot on Tue May 04, 2021 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: Question about aerial law.   Question about aerial law. Icon_minitimeMon May 03, 2021 9:38 pm

Hi guys,

Hope you had a good weekend. As you can tell I was up to other things so hence my late reply to this all! Wink


@ PaulGray

Really want to thank you for the words mate, knocked me back into my senses.
You're quite right, one aspect of Amateur radio is indeed 'wireless experimentation'. Every antenna is a compromise and of course a temporary experiment as we're always planning the next, better antenna to put up! As you rightly point out they are wire affairs and by their very nature 'temporary'. Seeing as my FT757 is still out of action I don't need to file any paperwork as my current power output is exactly zero watts!! Very Happy
(The VHF stuff is 'safe' anyway.)

My neighbours don't care that their cats sh*t in my garden, or their dogs bark all hours of the day and night, plus one neighbour seems to think that 'Mary-Jane' is odourless(!!!) With all that in mind, I'm sure a few wires hanging from the house isn't that much of an issue. Question about aerial law. 1f44d 

I've hit you a 'Thanks', a few words of common sense can often be the slap in the face we need at times. Smile



All the best,
Victor

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