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redsprite
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redsprite

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PostSubject: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 11:04 am

Hi all,
i,m really surprised there is relative silence about the quite ridiculous measures that OFCOM  may bring in after November 16th. It's really taken the wind out of my sails after buying a powerful transceiver and Sirio GainMaster and looking to expand on my new hobby.

This happens ALL  the time,the powers that be just can't let us have our fun can they.
Those who are MY age will remember the absolute joy the offshore radio stations brought to us only to be taken away from us purely for the fact that we were having TOO MUCH FUN.

They actually admit THIS in their online report QUOTE:

Under normal conditions, most uses of radio spectrum for wireless communications present no health risks to humans,


So really where is the harm. There ARE a LOT more things I would like to say on this matter,but maybe this is not the place..........I am Fkin furious.



????????????????????????????????

Redsprite.
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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 11:37 am

Are you talking about the EMF report?

I thought most of that was about the silly asshats complaining about 5G towers, (for those that weren't burned down!)

If so, then my response is "Meh"...........Altogether now..."Carry on regardless.." Wink

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redsprite
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Call Sign : 26-CT-3697
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Age : 67

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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 11:52 am

Victor, yes the EMF report. The way I understand it, it will affect Amateur and CB  radio alike. Amateur's will be expected to go online and present REPORTS of transmission TIMES power USED  frequency etc etc. Which would be a pain in the proverbial ar-e.

Like you I am hoping to go on and get my Amateur licence, but if all that palava is needed I would be persuaded otherwise.

Steph.

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 12:36 pm

Not worth worrying about until it happens.
Pluss they have to run it buy our Victor first lol.

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stephen Gunrunner
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 5:56 pm

its like back to the old keeping logs but why is it out of spite it think not do they think
we are having fun, god knows just wait and see

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Red Fox
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 7:44 pm

Just had a quick browse through the OFCOM proposal on the link Starship provided.

The measures only seem to refer to Licencees, as CB bands are not licensed, I doubt they will have any means to check who is using them let alone try and enforce action.

With regard to Licensed Amateur operators, it seems a fairly innocuous process to use their basic EMF calculator and then upload the info.

I tried this and found even at 100w should I transmit on this power, my antenna would need to be a minimum of 3.6mt away from public areas. 

Considering my garden is not a public area and my antenna is over 6 meters above the ground, I would have no issues.

From what I see, it is just another box ticking exercise to cover their backside.

Just my tuppence for what its worth.

Cheers

Graeme.

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 8:16 pm

Hi Graeme,

Yeah Mark, (Starship), posted about this a few days back and I took a look at the links and Ofcom site back then.
It didn't give me any cause for concern, as you rightly point out most of it is a tick in a box.

The RSGB are still in talks with Ofcom on how this would be implemented anyhow.

Similar to your point, with my antennas in the loft and my Foundation limit of 10W someone would have to be actually in my loft! Even in the upstairs rooms beneath the loft you still don't get close enough. The same with antennas on masts, even if you run several hundred watts you'd have to hanging off the mast Wink

Try typing in a typical 4W at 2m or 70cm of a Handy's output and you'll get a different story though.......


Reminds me of the scare stories with mobile phone RF outputs and yet I don't see anyone putting down the damn things any time soon! Very Happy



If I have to tick a box for my Amateur Licence conditions then so be it - they'll soon find out what a pointless exercise it really all is.


Right....where's that tinfoil hat of mine?...I'm sure I left it somewhere?....Oh, there it is, on my head! Very Happy



All the best,
Victor

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John123
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2020 10:18 pm

redsprite wrote:
Hi all,
i,m really surprised there is relative silence about the quite ridiculous measures that OFCOM  may bring in after November 16th. It's really taken the wind out of my sails after buying a powerful transceiver and Sirio GainMaster and looking to expand on my new hobby.

This happens ALL  the time,the powers that be just can't let us have our fun can they.
Those who are MY age will remember the absolute joy the offshore radio stations brought to us only to be taken away from us purely for the fact that we were having TOO MUCH FUN.

They actually admit THIS in their online report QUOTE:

Under normal conditions, most uses of radio spectrum for wireless communications present no health risks to humans,


So really where is the harm. There ARE a LOT more things I would like to say on this matter,but maybe this is not the place..........I am Fkin furious.



????????????????????????????????

Redsprite.
Hello Stephan,

I wouldn't worry too much, like people have said, OFCOM have not got the time, money or resources to investigate much at all.

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43CT016
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 8:40 am

Let's be honest, if you're running illegal power on 11m, you're not likely to file an EMF report, are you?  Just carry on as normal... Very Happy

During our 1kW trial a few years ago, it was the inability of some trialists to properly calculate their EMF and make their stations comply that made the trial unsuccessful and left us stuck on 400w.

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 10:12 am

Just worked it out on 2m at 10w and a hand glider crashing into my chimney might get close.
Suppose it gives somebody a job making a new rule up if nothing else.
I think i got the sum right put me right if i am wrong will you.

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STARSHIP
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 11:01 am

info here https://charlietangodxgroup.forumotion.com/t2105-emf-ofcom-propose-new-amateur-radio-licence-conditions
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STARSHIP
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 11:02 am

This may well effect CB operators too in the future.


Last edited by STARSHIP on Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Red Fox
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 12:14 pm

Hi Mark,

Can you elaborate on how this will effect CB operators?

Browsing through the proposal, it only seems to refer to Licencees? assuming this means operators of licensed equipment, not just Amateur operators, I'm not able to see how this would effect a non licensed CB operator, or indeed how Ofcom would be able to enforce this on a CB operator.

Any help to provide clarity may go a long way in assisting many folk on here greatly.

73's

Graeme.
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NUBSTER
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 12:29 pm

I wouldn't worry about anything to do with CB OFCOM/RSGB couldn't care less about CB radio as it's a none licence radio plus they dont have the staff or the facilities to do any checking on anything even Amateur unless your corsing interference as you are licensed, they never really do anything they have always relied on scare tactics this is the truth .
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2020 8:38 pm

These new changes will be all RF areas over time.
However as said by myself in the past it is a non event as Ofcom don't have the manpower to enforce this in any setting.

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G0RQQ
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeThu Oct 22, 2020 9:57 pm

Re the ICNIRP requirements - Ofcom WILL ultimately be extending the specs to cover unlicensed (i.e. CB) services as well - it’s in the small print. I believe the requirements will be finalised mid-2021 for implementation late 2021.

It is indeed all driven by the anti-5G brigade and Ofcom’s desire to be seen to be doing something about that. In doing so, the regulations are to be applied to all services transmitting any form of RF, even though in some cases the logic is flawed.

There are several commercial organisations that are NOT impressed - for example, theoretically a taxi service would have to make sure their patrons stayed the required distance away from the vehicle if the driver is on the radio to his base.

Regards,
Keith 26CT866


Last edited by G0RQQ on Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeThu Oct 22, 2020 10:21 pm

Hi Keith,

Cheers for the input, I did think it had a smattering of 5G nonsense about it.

It'll be an easy, (if futile), task to implement with officially licensed operators such as businesses and Radio Amateurs as Ofcom have the contact details of those involved. How the hell they'll ever implement it on non licensed users will be quite a challenge.....all those CBers, PMR users and anyone that buys a transceiver from eBay etc. that never have to register anything Wink

It does all feel like a box ticking exercise without much thought placed into it such as your taxi example.

Still, it's a mad world and just as well most of the electromagnetic spectrum isn't visible to our eyes.... it'd be a veritable smog!


All the best,
Victor

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G0RQQ
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeThu Oct 22, 2020 10:50 pm

Ofcom have said that they will not pursue anyone transmitting at a power lower than 10 watts EIRP. Now before any CB operators say “So it doesn’t apply to us” 10 watts EIRP translates to about 6.1 watts from the transmitter, so legal FM would be OK but legal SSB wouldn’t (putting aside any issues about linears).

However, the wording causes issues for those amateurs who like low power QRP operating. As drafted a transmitter with 5 watts maximum output (the de facto “QRP limit”) such as the FT-817/818 would be below the cut-off for ICNIRP compliance but using a 100 watt rig with the power turned down to 5 watts wouldn’t because it COULD be used at a higher power - even if it wasn’t....almost a “Guilty until proven innocent” scenario.

Regards,
Keith
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PostSubject: Re: OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES   OFCOM DRACONIAN MEASURES Icon_minitimeFri Oct 23, 2020 7:08 am

I actually don't think Ofcom will have the ability to pursue much in the way of enforcement.

As mentioned it would be an easy task with licensed operators, one quick blanket email to all concerned. The 'kerfuffle' that has already ensued in the Amateur and Business world will have done the job of publicity for them.

The rest is purely symantics, the 'Scooby-doo' phrase "Could be" as a catch all net for the squabbles such as QRP operators or low power Baofeng type or otherwise HT Amateur users.

They stand little chance of enforcing this on high power PMR and CB radio users, again as mentioned due to lack of traceability.


But until such a time that they prove RF emenations legal or otherwise actually harm, maim or kill individuals I think we all have bigger fish to fry.

So in the mean time I'll happily tick the box for my Amateur licence and leave the CB radio users to do their thing.
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