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26ct954
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PostSubject: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2021 7:12 pm

Hi all what's the best a £100 vertical or a Lw10 long wire
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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2021 9:01 pm

Long wire for me.
I paid the best part of £140 for a vertical and don't use it.
A 10mtr length of wire and i re-made a 9.1 unun works very good but it will soon be 20mtr long should be perfect then.
To be honest the only problem i have with it is when the 40m band it turns the bedside touch lamp on lol.

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 14, 2021 9:46 pm

Thumbs up for the longwire here too!

OK, I have dipoles made out of bits of 'long' wire but I did run an EFHW, (End Fed Half Wave), for a while. Another example of a long bit of wire really Wink

Long bits of wire can be pretty cheap too - measure & cut. A lot cheaper and just as effective as a purchased one.
(My Ham friend has his disguised as a washing line, cos it is a bit of steel washing line just higher up than usual!)
20m of steel cored washing line runs at £3 or £4? 

As Alan pointed out, they can be a lot more effective than an expensive HT vertical.


Laughing at your touch lamp problems Alan. When I used the EFHW, 40m TX would switch the upstairs TV on Very Happy
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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 8:32 am

Forgot to put that bit as yes mine is a EFHW but wish i had thought of the washing line but i have bought wire now  Sad Sad.
Glad it's not just me switchings on Victor.
The station commander will laugh at that when i tell her.
When i have been on the 40m band and i come back in the house she say's "you have been at it again".
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43CT016
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 9:34 am

Depends on a lot of factors, TBH.  Generally, a vertical will get you a lower angle of radiation, which is better for distant contacts, whereas a wire will generally give a better "all round" pattern (Depending on how high and how it's installed).

To give a practical example, I have a 8010 EFHW wire antenna (In an inverted L), and a Hustler 6BTV vertical here, on opposite sides of the garden.  I was talking to the other side of the country last night (A 2500km contact over here!) on 40m, and he had a dipole and vertical.  Both of us were far stronger and heard better on the wire antennas, and when either of us switched to the vertical, the other heard the signal a couple of S-points down.  On 20m, for a slightly longer distance contact, I've seen the opposite!


Last edited by 43CT016 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 9:46 am

Ha! Ha! Very Happy
I bet your wife gives you the same look I get too....stern but smirking Wink

It's not exactly 'Litz' or some 'military' grade wire but the washing line does work well. Cheap as chips so always worth trying things like that.
The 'Fan' dipole array I made, (got told it was a 'nested' dipole - semantics at play), was made from a dirty big reel of electricians wire sitting outside a recycling centre. It was only covered in paint and probably the reason it was dumped but as I was going to strip the copper wire out it was of no issue. Must've had some 700 foot or so off that big reel! (Three core and earth stuff!)

Was just looking at the LW10....10 metres of wire and a 9:1 balun for those prices?....what a rip off!

You did well rewinding your balun Alan as 'purchased' units can leave a lot to be desired.
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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 9:47 am

My 10 meter wire starts at the feed end around 3m off the ground and the other end is around 5m so a bit of a sloper.
The SE-HF-360  the base is around 3.5/4m off the ground they are as high as i dare go i think.
The wire winn's every time and only use the vertical on the 11m band now that's if i remember to switch over on the auto-tuner.

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 9:49 am

Hi Jeff,

You're quite right, a lot of factors come into play. Our Alan bought a vertical and had no luck with it unfortunately.

Still think someone throwing up a suitably measured piece of wire is a great way to start out.
(Still can't believe what people charge for a length of wire?!?!?)
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43CT016
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 10:00 am

Victor wrote:
Hi Jeff,

You're quite right, a lot of factors come into play. Our Alan bought a vertical and had no luck with it unfortunately.

Still think someone throwing up a suitably measured piece of wire is a great way to start out.
(Still can't believe what people charge for a length of wire?!?!?)


Yep, indeed.  I was getting whinged at this week in a Codan group for daring to suggest someone make their own wideband folded dipole rather than buy commercial.  Rolling Eyes 

I am a huge fan of the EFHW....DIY transformer for probably twenty quids worth of parts, wire cut to resonance on the lowest band, no radials, and a heap of options with regards layout, and yet always seems to work well.
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 10:14 am

Ha! Ha! Very Happy Yeah, how dare you Jeff! Wink

I wondered why people don't cut bits of wire to length themselves, antennas are not exactly hard to make. But I did realise that if it doesn't work you can always blame the manufacturer than your own handy work. Wink



I want to retry an EFHW again myself so that I can get an antenna outside instead of in the loft/attic. Since our neighbours extended their house and converted their attic space I get a lot more QRM than I used to.

Working with digital modes I did come across PSKReporter
and found it invaluable for checking your own TX/RX paths and reception distances, which is ideal for testing an antenna.
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43CT016
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43CT016

Call Sign : 43-CT-016
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Join date : 2019-11-17
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 10:39 am

Victor wrote:
Working with digital modes I did come across PSKReporter
and found it invaluable for checking your own TX/RX paths and reception distances, which is ideal for testing an antenna.

As you're already using WSJTX, just user WSPR, and set it to upload your "contacts":

http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

When you do your EFHW, Steve Ellington's channel is absolutely invaluable:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8yv24rjknvixn1KIAcwzoQ

My latest incarnation is running "his" 3 x 240-52 core variant, and even having gone back to a shortened wire (To avoid QRM from where I needed to run the old 40m wire), I'm finding it far better...and that's before I fire up the amp, which was the reason for more cores to begin with!

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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 11:47 am

Cheers for that Jeff!

Again, always appreciate your bags of information and pointers as they are totally invaluable. Smile
(You're a bit of a star when it comes to that.)

I had looked at WSPR but hadn't seen Steve Ellington's channel, loads of EFHW stuff to go through so that will keep me occupied for a while. 

Another deserved 'click' on that Thanks button for you methinks!


---------------------------------------

Apologies to the OP Chris. We've maybe 'diversified' from your original posting but a wealth of information came about because of it.


Right, I'm off to study some EFHW stuff! Smile




All my best to you all,
Victor
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26ct954
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2021 2:13 pm

OK well it looks like am going for a Lw10, and pick up a Chinese ATu, still getting my bits and pieces together..
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeWed Feb 10, 2021 5:20 pm

I used to use an end fed....  It worked really well, till the tree surgeon cut it in half! I did have a few problems with stray RF, And got bitten a couple of times when my lips touched the metal mic cage. OUCH!
Also my home made G5RV half size, with home made ladder line worked REALLY well. Stupidly gave it away with a radio I sold, so as the guy could get on the air right away! Done the same thing with a 10m dipole as well....  No wonder I can never find what I need!!
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PostSubject: Re: Hf antenna    antenna - Hf antenna  Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2021 10:33 am

Full length g5rv at 20ft plus will work ok
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