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 The 'mythical' all band vertical?

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Alan Pilot
TrunkY
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TrunkY
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Equipment Used : FT-747GX, IC-551D, FT-817ND, FT-891

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PostSubject: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 2:03 pm

I had been using a 1/4 wave vertical for 40m (7MHz) and it worked as a 3/4 wave on 15m (21MHz). It worked well but really would not tune acceptably on any other band. My tuner will only match a V:SWR at a maximum of 5:1 and anything outside that range probably should not be considered an antenna anyway.

I started to look into multi band verticals and almost convinced myself to buy one but decided to try something of my own.


I now have 43 feet or 13.1m of wire spirally wound on a 10m (fibreglass) roach pole. At the feed point (which is at ground level) is a 4:1 UnUn. There's half a dozen radial wires mostly 10m long where I can get away with them without upsetting the gardener.

The theory is that the wire length is non resonant on any band and with the aid of the 4:1 UnUn presents a fairly reasonable impedance to the tuner - yes, you need a tuner. I've no idea if it can be tuned on 160m as my tuner does not have that band and I doubt such a short antenna would be very efficient anyway.

What I've ended up with, is, no doubt, a compromise antenna, but it tunes well and receives well from 80m to 6m. Good enough to try it out for a few months anyway Smile

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 2:15 pm

I made up a similar antenna but mine is horizontal with a choke to add 80m.
Well it is a copy of the one uk-antennas sell but making the 4:1 unun myself saved loads of cash.
I run an auto tuner and it tunes well on 10/15/20/40/80 well i don't need the tuner that much.
It works well now it is in the air but a funny thing when testing it just laid out across the decking and garden it showed good on top band on my rigexpert but now in the air it's miles off.
All good fun playing radio/antennas i think but the station commander is not too impressed lol.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 2:49 pm

I had to buy the UnUn as I don't have much feeling in my hands at the moment. Spinning around the bands it's made me quite happy. I do have an auto tuner on the FT-817ND but I wanted to see what was going on so out came the old FT-747 & FC-707 combo. I do like old manual tuners, you know where you are with them.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 pm

Fantastic to hear about your antenna exploits Roger and a big thumbs up for making your own. The 'mythical' all band vertical? 1f44d 
(I do love a bit of 'homebrew' at any level. Smile )


There's a lot that goes around about the 'magic' 43 foot length and the utilisation of 'non-resonance' often with derogatory remarks from some, but many get at least some performance from them especially in their vertical guise.

I've always said, "Any antenna is better than NO antenna".

The thing that impresses me most is your statement, "...it's made me quite happy...", which also fills me with much happiness. After all, shouldn't an interest in radio as a hobby be to make you happy? You're wasting your time otherwise. Wink

Like you I love nothing more than spinning that dial and tweaking a good old fashioned ATU so much so that I built my own, (Pi-Network tuner using nothing but 'scrap' parts). It sits happily next to my old FT757gx and does a grand job whether it's the 'best' or not. (I manage 160m to 10m so it does the job for me!)


We could ponder the 'best' and never get on air or gloat about expensive purchases all to no avail.

Or seize available opportunities and be rewarded with a certain happiness.


Well done Roger! 


All the very best,
Victor
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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 3:24 pm

Took me some time to make the unun as i also have very little use in my left hand due to an accident 44 years ago breaking the nerves at my shoulder but learnt a few tricks over the years.
Glad you are having fun m8 that's what it's all about.


Last edited by Alan Pilot on Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 8:18 pm

TrunkY wrote:
My tuner will only match a V:SWR at a maximum of 5:1 and anything outside that range probably should not be considered an antenna anyway.

That is a very coaxial-centric point of view.  Before coax, SWR was just seen as a curiosity that really didn't mean much to performance.

Every 5/8 wavelength antenna out there is naturally not resonant.  End fed half wavelength antennas are resonant, yet have a very high SWR until a matching circuit is added.  In your case, its not the high SWR that determines weather something will work as an antenna, but the limits of the coax.

There is a group here in the US that use things never meant to be antennas.  They have competitions that state you can't use wires, and you can't use metal tubes unless it is part of something else.  You would be surprised at what they make work as antennas, and how well some of them actually work.


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Call Sign : 26-CT-4304 --. -.... -. .-- ..-.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 26, 2021 8:52 pm

Very true DB. 

I come from a low signal VHF/UHF background where I MS'd and EME'd in the 80's and antennas had to be 100% cock on. 

HF is so much more forgiving and relaxing thankfully. 

Coax was my world and Andrew's Heliax was God, now I get mildly excited by a piece of wire of a certain length Smile

Alan, I'm hoping my hands will regain their feeling, it's as a result of chemotherapy, may well get better over the next few months.

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 7:27 am

Roger
I hope the rest of you gets better along with your hands m8.
Man of very few words but totally stumped at the moment.
All the very best.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeSat Nov 27, 2021 8:46 am

Been there done that in the end settled on a Hustler 6BTV with 65 5metre radials.

Tried various homemade verticals, inverted Ls ect but the Hustler beats them all.

It's mainly used on the low bands but works well on all.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2021 7:52 pm

Victor wrote:-

Like you I love nothing more than spinning that dial and tweaking a good old fashioned ATU so much so that I built my own, (Pi-Network tuner using nothing but 'scrap' parts). It sits happily next to my old FT757gx and does a grand job whether it's the 'best' or not. (I manage 160m to 10m so it does the job for me!)



Good choice on a Pi network configuration - I did the same, although a T network matches over a larger range, the Pi network also works as a low pass filter.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'mythical' all band vertical?   The 'mythical' all band vertical? Icon_minitime

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