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 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?

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Steve82
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4684
Posts : 6
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Join date : 2022-11-04
QTH or Location : Aylesford kent
Equipment Used : CRT ss9900
Age : 42

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PostSubject: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2022 7:18 pm

Hi all,

Just planning my antenna setup, however before I jump and buy something that instantly fails, I thought it might be worth asking advice from some of you more experienced operators.

Basically, due to my house being on a visible corner, and having unforgiving neighbours, I am stuck between the following scenarios:

a) a larger antenna mounted not far above ground level, and not far from the house, 1/2 wave or 5/8 wave silver rod etc.

b) a smaller antenna mounted on the chimney, something like the Thunderpole Boomerang (it has a good wright up against its Sirio competitor) or something of that nature.

From my rough calculation, the tip of the proposed smaller antenna will be about 500mm higher up than a 1/2 wave rod.

What scenario would be better? I know there's an abundance of electrical mathematics involved to correctly answer this, however any input, or previous experiences would be much appreciated.

Thanks all, 73s.


Last edited by Steve82 on Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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SangueG
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SangueG


Call Sign : 26-CT-3971 / 2E0LMI
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Join date : 2021-01-30
QTH or Location : Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Equipment Used : Little radios, home-made antennas

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2022 8:48 pm

Hi Steve. If I had to choose between those two options I would go for the large antenna mounted not too far from the ground. Should be good for fairly local stations and should be ok for skip, depending on what you have buildings and otherwise surrounding you. Kate on youtube has made some far contacts into south America with an Antron with the base just a few feet off the ground. The larger antenna will have a wider bandwidth too.

Do you have loft space you can use? If so, you could try a horizontal dipole in there for skip work and stick a small antenna like the boomerang up on the chimney for local. A simple wire dipole costs almost nothing to make and in an average house loft about 6 to 7 metres above ground can do magic.

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Steve82
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4684
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Join date : 2022-11-04
QTH or Location : Aylesford kent
Equipment Used : CRT ss9900
Age : 42

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2022 10:24 pm

That's a good idea, best of both worlds. Iv heard that when the bands are open, horizontal dipoles work well. For local contact swap over to the Boomerang.

Perfect, thank you.

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Victor
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Call Sign : 26-CT-3228 / M7VIC
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Join date : 2019-11-10
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Equipment Used : Various

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2022 8:08 am

Hi Steve,

You won't go far wrong with a half wave even mounted low down and it'll more than likely run rings around something like the 'boomerang' no matter how high you mount that.

Some basic details here :-

http://dx-antennas.com/Half%20wave%20vertical.htm


There's always lots of talk about TOA or "Take Off Angles" and such but it's often not all that important as you think :-

https://www.eham.net/article/23758


Like Neal (SangueG) I also have a horizontal dipole (multi band doublet in fact) mounted in my loft with which I've worked the world on 10m and 12m. I know full well it probably has many 'nulls' or 'lobes' but don't worry about it as they aren't as apparent as first thought. As mentioned, great for DX but appalling for local contact unless they too are running a horizontal. (Not very likely on CB.)


Sure enough many subjects and especially antennas have a whole wrath of pontification surrounding them. Wink

I've always said that "any antenna is better than no antenna" which is certainly true if your main goal is to at least get on air.


Have fun and enjoy your radio activities. 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? 1f44d 

All the best,
Victor

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Steve82
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4684
Posts : 6
Times Thanked : 1
Join date : 2022-11-04
QTH or Location : Aylesford kent
Equipment Used : CRT ss9900
Age : 42

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2022 4:29 pm

Hi Victor, thanks for the info, very helpful.

I'm gonna start with a horizontal dipole in the loft, and perhaps a vertical antenna once that's set up.
Is it necessary to use a 1:1 balun on the dipole, will it make much of a difference?
Back in the 90's I made a dipole for 27Mhz and it worked really well without one.
They don't cost a lot, and from what I've read it sounds like its worth including?


Many thanks.

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SangueG
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SangueG


Call Sign : 26-CT-3971 / 2E0LMI
Posts : 1225
Times Thanked : 72
Join date : 2021-01-30
QTH or Location : Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Equipment Used : Little radios, home-made antennas

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2022 5:55 pm

Steve, I would keep it cheap and simple to start with and see how it works. A 1:1 balun is good practice, can reduce unwanted common mode on the coax, and reduce unwanted noise. But, you might not have issues with common mode or noise, so try without first, you can always add one later.

I use one because I found it did reduce noise for me. Have good size wingnuts on it too which have helped secure more wires for other bands. It looks a right mess but works well. Photo and birds eye plan of the wires layout on my QRZ if you are interested.

https://www.qrz.com/db/M7TDV

Have fun with building one. You're right, they can cost almost nothing, but can perform really well.

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Victor
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Victor


Call Sign : 26-CT-3228 / M7VIC
Posts : 5845
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Join date : 2019-11-10
QTH or Location : Bedford
Equipment Used : Various

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2022 10:38 pm

Some top notch help from Neal there for you Steve. 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? 1f44d

I do run a 1:1 current choke on my current system but it's a multi-band affair so non-resonant and it helps out a lot. When I had a resonant length especially higher up the HF bands I ran it without one and my VHF/UHF dipoles just have simple ferrite sleeves.

It can all be cheap as chips and my current system is actually made from an old electric lawnmower extension lead!

Antennas can be a lot of fun to play around with so do enjoy yourself.


Here Neal, after seeing your QRZ page again I was reminded of your bedroom setup and had an idea of how you can 'expand' it some......

1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Sangue10

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SangueG
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SangueG


Call Sign : 26-CT-3971 / 2E0LMI
Posts : 1225
Times Thanked : 72
Join date : 2021-01-30
QTH or Location : Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Equipment Used : Little radios, home-made antennas

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2022 5:59 am

Ha ha Victor, love it. For sure I wouldn't be laughing if I tried that though lol.

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skyrider
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4654
Posts : 359
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Join date : 2022-09-25
QTH or Location : Preston, Lancs.
Equipment Used : UNIDEN 100, midland alan 78 plus multi + mag mount , silver rod
Age : 64

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PostSubject: Re: 1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High?   1/2 Wave at Low Level Vs 1/4 Wave Up High? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2022 10:42 am

no it might be you lying on the floor quick style  Laughing
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