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 Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 10, 2023 6:20 am

I'm really sorry Neal but once again I feel that your club has placed some strange ideas across your ears once more with a story I've heard on more than one occasion......

It all sounds plausible to even the most intelligent person with tales of caution and the typical "what if" scenarios but think on about other things that usually happen with millions if not a few billion people around the world everyday.


Do you power off your internet router at home when the house will be empty for the day?

Disconnect all wi-fi devices including 'voice assistants', camera systems such as modern video doorbells, home burglar alarms (why you'd want to witness your home being burgled via video whilst being helpless to intervene is beyond me!), charging systems such as the multiple phone chargers etc?

Do you power down the refrigerator (be silly wouldn't it) turn off and disconnect the washing machine, cooker, television or other typical devices found around the modern home?

I'll pretty much bet that most people don't and yet return home at the end of the day or maybe even several days after a holiday break to not find their home a burnt out husk of a shell after a serious fire or even left to clean up after a small one.

(I know there'll be some environmental concerns from those who actually do power things down in an attempt at green miniscule carbon saving events or even safety conscious others placing their home in "holiday mode" before leaving for a week or two.)
 
Either way that'll be most of the fire safety cautionary tales put to bed....but wait!....we all enjoy a very 'technical' hobby with power supplies and radio and wires and things which are far more 'technical' and get 'hotter' than usual home devices don't we? (Of course RF emanation is a very special thing too isn't it?)


In which case much like anything else I'd expect someone wanting to perform such functionality as remote operation to delve further into such concerns before they do anything. Heck, we have the "ladder safety" question in the Foundation exam which I'm sure doesn't stop old fools who should know better or enthusiastic youngsters from scrabbling up their roof and falling off attempting to hang that new antenna.....all in effort to get that far flung QSO for the logs. (Stupidity isn't usually immediately obvious nor can be legislated against with 'rules' which are often ignored.)

So I believe that stopping a whole swathe of the radio population doing something due to "what if" concerns or the odd numpty is rather presumptuous and again defamatory to the many Foundation holders level of intelligence. (I still get treated like I'm a complete 'newbie' to radio only due to the 'M7' at the start of my call sign rather than the reality of my knowledge and experiences.)

Amateur Radio unfortunately still retains smatterings and lingering smells of the BR68 old guard with gate-keeping exercises or comments in a vain attempt at selfishly guarding their 'rewarded' space in the world.



I put my response to Ofcom as a resounding 'yes' to everything suggested and truly hope that nothing is blocked by those who believe they are more 'special' than everyone else.

This if only after a recent experience with my grandson who turned six years old a short while ago having a fascinated visit to my shack once again then spying my CW Morse paddle I made sometime back. I'm now very fortunate to have a FT450 at my disposal which has the Morse training mode and functionality to tap out code without being on transmit so started showing him how it all worked. He still remembered his name in code that I taught him sometime back and after a moment of acclimatising himself to the touch paddle tapped out "H A R R Y" with a joyful glee when he'd finished. (@18wpm no less!) I then tapped out a typical CQ with my call sign which had him giggling in excitement scrabbling for the key once more.....in full Iambic with his little thumb and finger he keyed up "CQ CQ CQ DE HARRY CQ CQ CQ DE HARRY CQ CQ CQ DE HARRY K" and I damn near fell off my seat. He performed flawless code in moments what had taken me multiple attempts over the years!!


We should be extolling the virtues of Amateur Radio to as many people as we can and keep the airwaves alive with activity....not blockading the interest whenever or however we want or even derogatorily slamming down newcomers. Assist those where we can, if we can and shut the f*** up if we can't.


Remember folks, just because my opinion may differ from yours doesn't mean I 'hate' you.

Enjoy your radio where you can and let others have the same opportunity.  Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 1f44d 



All the best,
Victor




To have your say with the Ofcom consultation download their document and email back your response at the following link :-

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/updating-amateur-radio-licensing-framework

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 10, 2023 1:47 pm

No worries Victor, I am sure you don't hate me, at least I hope you don't  Smile I wouldn't blame my club on this one. I have been doing a lot of listening to people rag chewing the subject on 40m and quite a lot of reading too and put my point across quickly with some extreme examples. Even the Ham Radio for Dummies book mentions having to be able to turn off the remote transmitter, gives some examples how and suggests using a different control link, though it doesn't talk possible nonsense scenarios like me.

Really not trying to put people off taking their first steps, definitely not my intention. Am only thinking that there should be an awareness of the subject if it will be allowed by us all. Does not need to go into deep technical detail at foundation level, just a few lines about in any training such as Essex Ham's so new people know what is possible (the benefits) and a few more lines just to get people thinking 'how would I be able to turn off my station remotely?'. That's all. As you say, anyone wanting to do can research themselves, like I am, though I might want to look for some other sources Wink Don't worry, I didn't put that long waffle with examples in my Ofcom response, it was very brief and alongside the 'agree', as I said I do want this myself!

I do power off my router when no one's home for long periods and sometimes at night, but that's mostly because I am am penny pincher Laughing

Tell your Grandson he's awesome.. I am sure you do anyway. I can recognise CQ and SOS, but little else. I can hardly recognise my callsign, even though I've heard it loads of times when auto-playing it after sending SSTV CQs. He's one up on me.

-

Posting the Ofcom link again for everyone:

To have your say with the Ofcom consultation download their document and email back your response at the following link :-

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/updating-amateur-radio-licensing-framework

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 10, 2023 2:49 pm

Yeah, definitely don't hate you Neal and find it really hard even to take a dislike to anyone. Wink
(I do play the devil's advocate giving different points of view and not always necessarily my own at first.)

If anything I've always admired you since your involvement with Charlie Tango and everything you've done here so no worries in that department. Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 1f44d 

I understand your concerns now if you've been looking at the opportunities of doing this all yourself as well as listening to the natter on the likes of 40m. I do agree wholly with remote power down as well as the ability to monitor a remote station, just don't like the idea of not allowing someone the opportunity to explore such options by rule. (Screams of protestation about 'progressing' up the licence abounds by those with a C&G of London certificate on the wall. Very Happy )
 
After surviving a night time apartment fire requiring oxygen for eight hours as well as treatment for burns and injuries from throwing myself out of a first floor window I'm a lot more tentative than most when it comes to fire safety. Much to my wife's demise in the early years and why I had to learn to calm down. (It was a faulty extractor fan in the building that started the fire...and wasn't even operating, just permanently wired to the mains!) Learning it was a once in a lifetime event still feels like too many times.


My Grandson? I always tell him he's awesome...every single day! (As well as the other five granddaughters.)
Really pleased with the way his young mind soaks up anything interesting especially when someone makes it a fun event for him.

Would hate for anything to become a chore for him or find his inquisitiveness stifled by some silly rules.

Much as I'd like others the same opportunities with their interests.


Always great to have a discussion here at CT and none more pleasurable than with yourself Neal.

You take care now and all my best to you,
Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 10, 2023 7:20 pm

Well i know im not a m7 or higher yet………..
But from my point, remote should stay with the big boys, inter/full.
Reasons, because i think if you can pass the foundation and  i hope to soon the remote will come later, need to learn on the job clubs, here, internet, part of this hobby is to learn and yes FT8 is good had a demo at the club the other day, but to remote work sort of miss’s the point of leaning, off out for a few hours just leave it running away, not for me ever sorry i want to be there to see who’s called,who’s not and where im getting to etc etc, i know a few will not like this but if you had a licence for over two years then upgrade to have remote with inter/full training etc etc

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 5:24 am

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for posting and never underestimate yourself or feel less than 'qualified' to have a voice or say in such discussions.

I'm not sure if you've misinterpreted the idea of 'remote' operation but you can actually operate your radio very much 'live' over the internet from a place away from your radio. So for example if you have a terrible location for HF operations such as local QRM/Interference or maybe no space for antennas you could install your Amateur Radio setup at a secondary location (2nd home, friends or relatives house or maybe even access a club location, etc.) Then access that radio via remote software and listen, change frequency, mode, etc. and actually key up and speak from the comfort of your home or even any location you desire that has internet access. All good fun and gets around certain limitations. Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 1f44d 


You could also, which I believe Neal (SangueG) is interested in, operate your own radio from your own house but whilst you're not actually there. So for example if Neal is at work but during his lunch break he wants to check out say 10m conditions and find there's an opening/activity he can make transmissions from an internet connected device on his own radio back at home. Handy stuff.

There's certainly nothing automatic about it and in the current day and age of common internet activities none too difficult either. So why should we place limitations to such activities dependant on apparent licence levels?

I certainly feel that after such discussions here as well as talking to others that many people place limits upon themselves and we really don't need any kind of rule writing at all! (I'm still sure that 'club' membership/mentality has a hand in that also receiving less than stellar information.)


Your mention of FT8 may be the reason behind your misconstrued idea of 'automatic' operation.

Ask any FT4/FT8 user about 'automatic' operation and many will tell you that there is far more involved in such than first thought. From scanning bands for activity (and having the antennas/setup for such) to watching propagation as well as signal reports coming in there's more involvement than just simply clicking-a-mouse. Even once that mouse is clicked to set the software in motion for a contact there's no guarantee that you'll make contact and may have to jiggle around the band-space/waterfall to try again. Often multiple tries are attempted to bag a far flung contact all of which definitely requires your personal attention and interaction none of which happens automatically.

There are 'zombie' stations out there that seem to incessantly call CQ and almost seem to run automatically but I log every contact I make manually and although the QSO signal report cycle is 'automatic' I sit with baited breathe during every step ensuring that I've made contact, even moving my transmission frequency if required 'live' whilst doing so.

Why FT8 at all? 
Well I can do it on my modest antenna setup with the minimum amount of power (I often run far less than 10W for the challenge and excitement) face no language barriers and seem to be able to pick up signals as well as transmit back to them literally all over the world.

It's no less fun than the typical "Yes, yes, you are 5 over 9 my friend, QRZ" from a foreign operator who's English language skills may only extend as far as radio QSO basics. (You still ought to commend them, how many of you can make even a basic QSO in German, French, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian......)


Oh, your mention of "two years" and then "upgrading" is also a common story I've heard on multiple occasions. 
It's a hobby, not a career, but if you feel you must be 'promoted-up-the-ranks' and gain access to the 'executive bathroom' then so be it.

Cheers again Jimmy, always eye opening to read other views on such stuff.
(Surprising how many have a common theme too. Wink )


All the best,
Victor

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 7:02 am

Each to there own on this remote lark.
2 winters back the old shack was fffff cold so i set my computers up for it.
I even set a cctv camera up to watch the radio along with heat pads under them yes it was cold in there.
Went indoors had a look and decided to put a thicker jumper on under my coat lol.
As Victor say's you have to be there at the radio.
New shack has a diesel heater in it but it does have a remote that lives on the bedroom windowsill toasty warm now in 5 minutes best thin i have ever bought and costs me 75p a day max.

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 8:02 pm

All I can say on the matter is awsome site well done CT on everyone's views thanks victor and Alan I know where you are coming from and agree what you both say thumbs up!!!! Soon I hope to be M7 or more lol keep up the good work CT site get loads of info and help just need M7 and a Ic7300 I'll be happy but wife wants a posh hol so looks like 5* and a bit of wire........ Oh and a dx10 that she don't know about

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 04, 2023 1:57 pm

I was going to post a reminder up saying that today was the last day to get your replies into Ofcom, but the consultation page shows it closed already even though their supporting PDF says by 5pm today. Hopefully everyone who wanted to got their responses in did, and if not do try and mail them in before 5pm today as they stated, I would hope they still accept responses till that time.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/updating-amateur-radio-licensing-framework

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 04, 2023 8:31 pm

Looks like the public responses were fairly good Neal with only the odd complaint. (There's still some that moan about 'Foundation' two decades later! Wink )

Fingers crossed everything goes through as planned. Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 1f44d
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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Sep 10, 2023 7:39 am

Essex Ham ran a survey regards the Ofcom consultation and the results were pretty interesting :-

https://www.essexham.co.uk/ofcom-consultation-2023-survey-results.html

It looks like on the whole that many were in favour of the proposed changes. (With only the odd niggle.)

Obviously this only reflects the opinions of the people that undertook the Essex Ham survey and official responses from individuals as well as organisations can be seen on the Ofcom web site :-

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/amateur-radio-licence


Here's hoping that the proposals go forward without too much of a hitch with a great benefit being to the future of the Amateur Radio hobby interest.

(My grandson can now tap out Morse better than I can! Can't wait to see if the opportunity to be able to supervise him on air goes through and engender his interests in Amateur Radio. Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 1f44d )


All the best,
Victor

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 14, 2024 8:38 am

Didn't know if this should be a new topic or not, but it is related to the proposed (now almost certain and imminent license changes so posting here)...

Till this month I have not taken part in the monthly voice V/UHF contests for a good few months. I got on air again last week for the 2m one and last night for 70cm non-competitively just to have a little play with my chopping board quarter wave. I thought I'd check out the contest rules to see if anything had changed, and I am glad I did as there are some to be introduced, check the below link for all:

https://www.rsgbcc.org/vhf/rules/24rules/frameindex.html

One point that jumped out at me was this one:

We will require entrants to use a callsign which correctly defines which DXCC country they are operating from. So - for example - a station operating from Scotland cannot omit the `M' or `S' RSL.

Interesting. I wonder if contests based from other countries will put a similar rule in place. Also, I can't see mentioned that England operators will be, or not, required to insert an RSL.. as it doesn't explicitly say either way, I guess they won't

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PostSubject: Re: Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework   Consultation: Updating the amateur radio licensing framework - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 14, 2024 9:24 am

Regional Secondary Locators were one of the main contentions with the consultation Neal and hence why Ofcom in the end decided it was discretionary rather than alleviate them altogether.

As you mention much fuss was made about it for logging and competition purposes but as you have noticed already there hasn't been fuss about the 'E' for England made. (Nothing changes from 'old' that way, eh?)

I'm not one much for sports anyway let alone 'sport' radio so doesn't bother me.

Only bothers me when we get CT call signs requested and I have to go hunt for their location as 'United Kingdom' has no AT country code, but that's if they've bothered putting in a QTH in the first place. Wink
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