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 Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences

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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 1:17 pm

When i got raided back in the early 90's they came at dinner time but i was out and my wife wouldn't let them in.
Then they came back around 5.30pm but i only had a legal straight 40 and that was in my car.
Told them straight i couldn't use it in the house with all the bad language.
They had a quick look around and tested the rig in the car and away they went  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes lol! lol!

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MarcFX
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 6:45 pm

But do they expect me to hold a 10W (16.4w EIRP) handheld more than a meter from my head? Laughing
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trik
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 7:15 pm

Will this legislation include cellphone masts, cell phones, wifi hubs,, wifi range extenders, 4G, 5G, pmr, radio stations, DAB multiplexes, dvb, etc,etc? Several cans of worms. Or, cynically, is it just the governments way of stopping inconvenient, unauthorised transmissions? Because this has never been a problem previously
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MarcFX
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 7:37 pm

trik wrote:
Will this legislation include cellphone masts, cell phones, wifi hubs,, wifi range extenders, 4G, 5G, pmr, radio stations, DAB multiplexes, dvb, etc,etc? Several cans of worms. Or, cynically, is it just the governments way of stopping inconvenient, unauthorised transmissions? Because this has never been a problem previously

My understanding is that this has more to do with the ongoing roll-out of 5G and the perceived health risks among certain groups.
 Ofcoms attempt to be seen to be doing things.

The regulations cover all licenses, so that would include mobile phone companies. And any other business user.

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MarcFX
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 8:02 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4AeX7fsd6E

The Americans are having similar conversations.
More to do with RFI, but there are some seriously sentient comments regarding the role of regulatory authorities like the FCC and Ofcom.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 8:35 pm

My understanding is that this has more to do with the ongoing roll-out of 5G and the perceived health risks


I thought the problem with the 5G was the frequencies involved, and the close proximities of the 5G masts required for the signal strength needed for accurate data transmission.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 8:48 pm

trik wrote:
My understanding is that this has more to do with the ongoing roll-out of 5G and the perceived health risks


I thought the problem with the 5G was the frequencies involved, and the close proximities of the 5G masts required for the signal strength needed for accurate data transmission.
I think the danger is that if Ofcom were to make any restrictions exclusive to 5G then certain parties would say: “AHA! So the IS an issue with 5G RF exposure!” and that would just start the ball rolling again on 4G, 3G, PMR, and ultimately any other RF-emitting device. This way, Ofcom can say: “We’re doing something about it NOW” and head off any future headaches.

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 9:02 pm

Perhaps we're only just starting to 'wake-up' to such things?

Took long enough with radioactivity......how many of us old gits had 'glow-in-the-dark' clocks, watches, radio dials, etc.?

Research has been going on for years but only after we observe 'weird things' happening. Needle leaves falling off pine trees near TV & radio towers and noticeable reduction in growth rings observed. Children having double the risk of childhood cancers when living or schooling near such transmission towers. Are MRI's, CAT scanners & other medical diagnostic devices actually safe? Why do some people that live near electricity pylons and power lines suffer headaches, fatigue, etc.?

We don't really know, being the clever upright monkeys we are. But we're trying to. Wink

Here follows a document on the OfCom website citing historical research into various levels of non-ionising radiation exposure and worth a flick through :-

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/62515/cavi_society_attachment.pdf


You'll see it's not all microwave RF but often includes 3 - 30MHz frequencies and others too.

Maybe it will seem to ruin our hobby or perhaps we'll tighten our belts a bit and carry on. 
I know I try to be considerate with my radio hobby activities but some operators will stick up huge antenna arrays running hundreds of watts, (or even 1000W +), in the middle of residential properties without a care in the world.

Is that really considerate when we are discovering so much?


As radio enthusiasts we're only some 0.15 - 0.2% of the population.....an easy problem to 'stamp' out compared to other massive problems we face. But they're not trying to stamp us out of existence, just trying to make us safer operators as well as other more profiteering users of the radio spectrum.

I've got to admit, after much more reading I don't think they're barking up the wrong tree at all.

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SangueG
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 14, 2021 9:10 pm

Just noting that I am not licenced, but still finding all this interesting and somewhat laughable. A few years ago I bought a meter and took some readings of nearby high tension power lines that are going to have houses built next to and business premises built under. Readings were off the chart, but no one in planning gave two hoots and was just brushed to one side as no laws were being broken.

Pretty certain the fields around the power lines are going to be somewhat stronger than that from many Ham stations, and constant as well. But what do I know. Why are they going after the little men and not the big boys? Neutral

Couple of links to my twitter where I posted some results..
https://twitter.com/SangueG/status/913305210944196608?s=20

https://twitter.com/SangueG/status/913303658552549376?s=20
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Alan Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 6:21 am

SangueG
Would that gadget detect from our antennas ?.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 7:22 am

We are only playing catch up ( or Ofcom are ) when it comes to EMF regulations compared to first world countries like Japan and Germany. Under BNetzA law the Germans have not only to do the sort of thing we are having to do now but also supply photos of antenna installations and EMF fields outside of the Amateurs own property further restricted to take into account heart pacemakers. For the Germans this started in 2002 and software like Watt Guard / watt watcher were developed and of course IcnirpCalc and I hope that when the RSGB's calculator is finished in its web page format it is more like IcnirpCalc V1.5 than the current spreadsheet offerings . Just a shame that ICNIRP 2020 made these type of programs defunct.

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SangueG
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 7:33 am

Alan Pilot wrote:
SangueG
Would that gadget detect from our antennas ?.
A brief uncontrolled test this morning before work says 'yes'. Dug it out and tried it. Keyed up on 11m with 20W of power.. Got the harmful bleep alert when keyed up when just an inch from the front and back of the transceiver. Just a couple of foot away from it all was clear.

I currently have an inverted V in attic. I held up the unit so would be about ten foot from one end of the V with bedroom ceiling in between me and it. It alerted the harmful beep. As I lowered it towards the end of bed the figures fell. Not harmful when placed on end of bed. So just a few extra feet put it into safe figures.

No readings from coax in coving going up into attic. Happy about that.

As I said, not a controlled test, but yes it does pick up fields from the antenna. Looks like the meters can still be found on ebay new for about £20ish if anyone wants to have a play themselves.

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radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 9:53 pm

chazwozza wrote:
I take it as it said only the effected lisences will be getting the notice us m3s etc with a lowly 10watts dont need to bother as ive recieved nothing from ofcom
I got one... I'm M3
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 11:07 pm

Arcticbear wrote:
chazwozza wrote:
I take it as it said only the effected lisences will be getting the notice us m3s etc with a lowly 10watts dont need to bother as ive recieved nothing from ofcom
I got one... I'm M3
Correct - Ofcom have advised that ALL classes of licenses will be affected. This is because the regulation specifies ERP and EIRP levels, so antenna gain will impact the levels of radiation. Hence an M3 running 10 watts into a beam could easily have a higher ERP/EIRP than an M0 running 10 watts into a piece of wire.

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Northern Crusader
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Mar 19, 2021 7:31 pm

SangueG wrote:
Alan Pilot wrote:
SangueG
Would that gadget detect from our antennas ?.
As I said, not a controlled test, but yes it does pick up fields from the antenna. Looks like the meters can still be found on ebay new for about £20ish if anyone wants to have a play themselves.

Oh god.....
It's a pointless plastic box that does bugger all except empty the wallets of the stupid. It does nothing of any use, it tells you nothing.  You have no idea what it's reading because there's nothing that tells you what it's reading at all. It may not even be beeping because of your transmission, that's how feckin pointless these toys are.
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STARSHIP
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 9:16 am

Ofcom: New Draft UK Amateur Radio licence
The draft of the new Amateur Radio licence expected to take effect on May 18 is available on the Ofcom site, comments can be submitted up until April 18

The new licence contains the, (what many believe to be the unnecessary) EMF clause that Ofcom have added at 7(1)(c) along with an extra three pages for Schedule 3 specifying conditions relating to Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) compliance.

Ofcom have also taken the opportunity to delete the reference to the old Full (Reciprocal) licence that was abolished in 2016.

Download the new draft licence from
https://ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/214116/emf-draft-amateur-licence-terms-and-conditions.pdf

Comments can be submitted to Ofcom by April 18 at
https://ofcomforms.secure.force.com/formentry/SitesFormLicensingEMFEnquiry

Ofcom EMF page
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/manage-your-licence/emf

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Victor
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 9:32 am

Thanks for the updates Mark, it is appreciated.  radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 1f44d 

We can bury our heads in the sand or otherwise pontificate this but it is going to happen and we should be best prepared to take on our licencing responsibilities.


........Whether we like it or not. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 9:58 am

I looked at the calculator. Again, I state I am only using CB and do not have a licence.

I put 12W in the power field (not sure if it should be 12W or 12 x 1.64?)
Then I put 27.205MHz in the frequency.
Out pops a minimum distance of 1.76m

Change to 4W and the same answer (although is exempt as under 10W). In fact, the distance only starts to move when you hit 30W and above.

The reason I did that was to check SSB at 12W. Along with the definition of 'public', which includes family members, you therefore are not allowed to transmit on CB SSB in the car with family present!

Funnily enough, if the person in the car (or next to your antenna at home) is also licenced, you can zap them with all the EMF you can find as they don't count as someone who needs to be protected, according to the FAQ.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 10:31 am

Hi Ian,

It's just a calculator to provide insight to exposure so not a real life measurement, that would have to be performed separately at your own satisfaction. You'd find the metal roof being used as the ground plane of your mobile antenna would dramatically reduce RF or EMF exposure to those underneath, (i.e. inside the vehicle). These sort of complications may be why they've done their best to avoid problems with mobile radio communications.
The calculator can only 'assume' so much.....it would get a bit complicated otherwise Wink

Much like SSB actually equates to approximately 25% of your peak power and a typical conversation would mean a 50/50 TX/RX cycle. So exposure is much less than anticipated.


As for 'zapping' yourself or other licenced holders with as much RF as you like - well, why not? Very Happy

We can't stop surfers from surfing in case they injure or drown themselves, they accept the personal 'risk'.
It's only when our past-time activities could inflict detrimental effect to someone else that we should really take self responsibility. I could 'wheelie' a motorcycle as much as I like on private ground and if I killed myself it would be classed as 'death by misadventure'. If I lost control with such antics on a public highway I could very well cause a detrimental effect to innocent members of the public and hence why it's illegal.

We've got away with spewing RF all over the place for quite some time now in our chosen interest pursuits - If there's a chance that it may affect an innocent party, then we really should take responsibility.

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Captain Fantastic
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 11:17 am

TBH I think the restrictions here are probably more complicated. When applying to erect an antenna anywhere, even on private land, I believe you have to perform and submit EMF calc's from what I have seen. If you cannot demonstrate compliance then you won't get permission.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 20, 2021 12:00 pm

Captain Fantastic wrote:
TBH I think the restrictions here are probably more complicated. When applying to erect an antenna anywhere, even on private land, I believe you have to perform and submit EMF calc's from what I have seen. If you cannot demonstrate compliance then you won't get permission.
I think you are correct. When I was working temporarily in Herisau some years ago I looked into putting up an HF antenna, but the paperwork put me off. So I just used 2m FM through the Saentis repeater....

Regards,
Keith G0RQQ ex-HB9KOW

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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 21, 2021 7:13 pm

Just looks like another reason for people to buy dodgy radios and use them without bothering to get a license. Why comply with so much bother when you can just pop a rig in your car and go for high power wanders when and where you want?

This is the problem with bureaucracies like OFCOM and those masters of getting-it-wrong DVLA. People don't just go away quietly, they'll just find ways to do it anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 21, 2021 7:53 pm

stinkybob wrote:
Just looks like another reason for people to buy dodgy radios and use them without bothering to get a license. Why comply with so much bother when you can just pop a rig in your car and go for high power wanders when and where you want?

This is the problem with bureaucracies like OFCOM and those masters of getting-it-wrong DVLA. People don't just go away quietly, they'll just find ways to do it anyway.
Agreed. If I want to operate on 28MHz I have to do calculations involving my transmitter power, how many minutes in each 6 minutes I am talking, whether I am using processed SSB, my antenna gain, what coax I am using and how long it is, whether I have anything like an SWR meter in circuit, etc etc. If I want to operate on 27MHz I buy a radio and an antenna, and I’m ready to go!
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PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Mar 24, 2021 11:02 pm

New RSGB EMF Calculator available
A new version of the RSGB/Ofcom EMF Calculator v0.1.2-rsgb9c is available for free download on the RSGB EMF page
Ofcom have produced a guidance document explaining what radio amateurs need to know about the new EMF licence condition. It includes a handy compliance flowchart that shows you step by step what you need to do to carry out your Assessment.
The first step is to determine your station's EIRP, the RSGB's Calculator will help you work this out and give the required Average EIRP value. If this value is 10 watts or less then all you need to do for the Assessment is record the calculated value, nothing else.
It is thought a significant number of amateur HF stations will find their Average EIRP value is 10 watts or less, if so the Compliance Distance doesn't apply.
If the EIRP is greater than 10 watts then you will need to follow the other steps in the flowchart.
Read Ofcom's What you need to know as an amateur radio user
https://ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/215657/What-you-need-to-know-as-an-amateur-radio-licensee-Draft-version.pdf

RSGB EMF page with Calculator
https://rsgb.org/emf

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radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences   radio - Ofcom to add EMF clause to ham radio licences - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 02, 2021 11:37 am

Still time to comment on Ofcom's EMF Docs
Comments on Ofcom's draft Amateur Radio licence and two EMF Guidance documents can still be submitted online up until April 18

Ofcom has released three documents:

Draft Amateur Radio licence with new EMF regulation
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/214116/emf-draft-amateur-licence-terms-and-conditions.pdf

Guidance on EMF Compliance and Enforcement
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/214459/guidance-emf-compliance-enforcement.pdf

Ofcom’s new EMF licence condition - What you need to know as an amateur radio user
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/215657/What-you-need-to-know-as-an-amateur-radio-licensee-Draft-version.pdf

Comments on these docs must be submitted by April 18 at
https://ofcomforms.secure.force.com/formentry/SitesFormLicensingEMFEnquiry

Ofcom EMF page
https://ofcom.org.uk/emf
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