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 T2LT antenna solutions

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RobChap
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4465
Posts : 45
Times Thanked : 0
Join date : 2022-03-29
QTH or Location : Sheffield, UK
Equipment Used : President McKinley, CRT SS 9900,CRT M9 Mic, Zetagi TM-999, Sirio Magmount 145, 1/4 Wave 9 foot Tank Whip/Red Devil Antenna. T2LT Wire Antenna on 10m DX Commander.

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PostSubject: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeMon Nov 27, 2023 7:58 pm

So I eventually got my home base setup.
I got a T2LT and its SWR was fine on the ground.
However now I have it on a 10m fibre glass pole, the only place I have been able to place it is bungee’d parallel to my strong house gutter.
The 1/3rd bottom end og my T2LT is next to the house and 2/3’s in the air.
I cannot go higher as it’s then over 2m above the peak of the roof and against regulations. The T2LT loop is next to the window of my room with the feed coming in the window with a RG316 patch and no issues there.

The SWR is 2.8. I have a TM-999 and tuned it to 1.1. However with some loss of power from my CRT SS9900. So FM is 30watts, but SSB is 8-12 watts.
Radio reports across Europe are great.
So before spending money to improve the situation I wondered if it may work?
I was wondering if a 1:1 unun would bring the SWR down and improve my power output?
I was thinking of getting the LDG RU 1:1 unun, but would I be wasting my money?

PS its not productive to advise changing my antenna setup as where I live its the best I can get.

Thanks in advance from Rob.

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SangueG
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SangueG


Call Sign : 26-CT-3971 / 2E0LMI
Posts : 1110
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Join date : 2021-01-30
QTH or Location : Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Equipment Used : Little radios, home-made antennas

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeMon Nov 27, 2023 8:52 pm

Hi Rob. A 1:1 balun / choke of that sort at the antenna feedpoint might help, but that coil of coax at the bottom of the T2LT should be doing the job of that.

You say your SWR is 2.8:1 without the use of the matcher. Is that across the band, or are channels at one end higher or lower than that? I am thinking you might just need to retune the antenna a little to improve the SWR, of which can mostly definitely change when you vary its height. Just shorten or lengthen it a little by adjusting the loop on the top.

I was going to ask if you were sure you had a fibreglass pole and not a carbon fibre pole, as the latter is a conductor and will affect antennas attached to it. But I just read your equipment list in you mini-profile and you list a DX Commander which is fibreglass, so all good there.

Hopefully a little adjustment of the tip will sort you out, but if not don't fret as with the SWR as it is you are not losing as much power as you might think.

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RobChap
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Call Sign : 26-CT-4465
Posts : 45
Times Thanked : 0
Join date : 2022-03-29
QTH or Location : Sheffield, UK
Equipment Used : President McKinley, CRT SS 9900,CRT M9 Mic, Zetagi TM-999, Sirio Magmount 145, 1/4 Wave 9 foot Tank Whip/Red Devil Antenna. T2LT Wire Antenna on 10m DX Commander.

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeMon Nov 27, 2023 10:25 pm

SangueG wrote:
Hi Rob. A 1:1 balun / choke of that sort at the antenna feedpoint might help, but that coil of coax at the bottom of the T2LT should be doing the job of that.

You say your SWR is 2.8:1 without the use of the matcher. Is that across the band, or are channels at one end higher or lower than that? I am thinking you might just need to retune the antenna a little to improve the SWR, of which can mostly definitely change when you vary its height. Just shorten or lengthen it a little by adjusting the loop on the top.

I was going to ask if you were sure you had a fibreglass pole and not a carbon fibre pole, as the latter is a conductor and will affect antennas attached to it. But I just read your equipment list in you mini-profile and you list a DX Commander which is fibreglass, so all good there.

Hopefully a little adjustment of the tip will sort you out, but if not don't fret as with the SWR as it is you are not losing as much power as you might think.
Thank you for the help.

Here are the SWR’s… 

Without Tuner.

27.001 = 2.5
27.100 = 2.6
27.200 = 2.7
27.300 = 3.0
27.400 = 3.0
27.500 = 3.0
27.555 = 3.0
27.600 = 3.1
27.700 = 3.1
27.800 = 3.2
27.900 = 3.2
27.991 = 3.3

With Tuner, tuned at 27.555 at 1.0 (TM-999).

27.001 = 1.8
27.100 = 1.6
27.200 = 1.4
27.300 = 1.2
27.400 = 1.1
27.500 = 1.0
27.555 = 1.0
27.600 = 1.1
27.700 = 1.2
27.800 = 1.5
27.900 = 1.7
27.991 = 1.9


The T2LT was purchased from a good manufacturer with good reviews and was pretuned.
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Victor
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Victor


Call Sign : 26-CT-3228 / M7VIC
Posts : 5696
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Join date : 2019-11-10
QTH or Location : Bedford
Equipment Used : Various

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeTue Nov 28, 2023 5:15 am

Hi Rob,

Some good input already offered there by Neal especially regards worrying too much about potential losses. (Best not to fret too much. Wink )

Your power readings you initially gave sounds about right if using the Zetagi meter to measure your RF power with a higher FM output and lower SSB (I'll bet that was a whistled up reading?) due to average readings versus PEP or peak envelope power. If it bounces around a few Watts whilst speaking normally that'd be about right for such a typical meter.

Amazing that some scream into their mic to give a few "More Watts Igor!" on their meter or the distortion of a power mic none of which helps readability/intelligibility at the other end.

As you say, you're reporting hitting into Europe OK. antenna - T2LT antenna solutions 1f44d 

From your SWR readings without the tuner it looks like the antenna appears electrically too long due to the SWR increasing as you increase frequency. This is why it's best to look at multiple SWR readings across the band to give you a better idea of what's happening.

You could trim the antenna slightly if it's such a worry (but I know that might be a right pain to do) or carry on with your matching solutions. 

At worst case you should still be kicking out 90-92% of your power at those band edges so nothing really to worry about. You could find the 'tweaked' settings of your TM-999 at the lower and upper of the band but I'll bet most of your DX activities are in that centre anyway.

I admire your tenacity at getting as good a setup as possible for yourself so that you can enjoy your radio activities without worrying too much about the 'perfect' setup....

Not all of us can get away with a dirty big Yagi beam astride our rooftops! Very Happy

I wish you all the best and good DX.

73,
Victor

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RobChap
New Member
New Member



Call Sign : 26-CT-4465
Posts : 45
Times Thanked : 0
Join date : 2022-03-29
QTH or Location : Sheffield, UK
Equipment Used : President McKinley, CRT SS 9900,CRT M9 Mic, Zetagi TM-999, Sirio Magmount 145, 1/4 Wave 9 foot Tank Whip/Red Devil Antenna. T2LT Wire Antenna on 10m DX Commander.

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeTue Nov 28, 2023 9:06 am

Victor wrote:
Hi Rob,

Some good input already offered there by Neal especially regards worrying too much about potential losses. (Best not to fret too much. Wink )

Your power readings you initially gave sounds about right if using the Zetagi meter to measure your RF power with a higher FM output and lower SSB (I'll bet that was a whistled up reading?) due to average readings versus PEP or peak envelope power. If it bounces around a few Watts whilst speaking normally that'd be about right for such a typical meter.

Amazing that some scream into their mic to give a few "More Watts Igor!" on their meter or the distortion of a power mic none of which helps readability/intelligibility at the other end.

As you say, you're reporting hitting into Europe OK. antenna - T2LT antenna solutions 1f44d 

From your SWR readings without the tuner it looks like the antenna appears electrically too long due to the SWR increasing as you increase frequency. This is why it's best to look at multiple SWR readings across the band to give you a better idea of what's happening.

You could trim the antenna slightly if it's such a worry (but I know that might be a right pain to do) or carry on with your matching solutions. 

At worst case you should still be kicking out 90-92% of your power at those band edges so nothing really to worry about. You could find the 'tweaked' settings of your TM-999 at the lower and upper of the band but I'll bet most of your DX activities are in that centre anyway.

I admire your tenacity at getting as good a setup as possible for yourself so that you can enjoy your radio activities without worrying too much about the 'perfect' setup....

Not all of us can get away with a dirty big Yagi beam astride our rooftops! Very Happy

I wish you all the best and good DX.

73,
Victor
thanks for the return Victor. 
I’ll suppose I’m learning something new again. It’s my first homebase setup ever after 42 years being a mobile operator. Things are so much easier mobile. You find the perfect spot high up and clear of everything. Good ground plane (the car) and very little if nothing on the QRM front.
Slap on the quarter wave and perfect SWR!
So im now experiencing high SWR and QRM galore.

My setup antenna wise is only a temporary setup and it’s performing well.
My plans in the summer is to get the pole down and upgrade if think.
Im not sure what might work better than the T2LT!
I was thinking one of these….

https://www.ukantennas.co.uk/product-category/with-mounting-bracket/

I contacted them and they will make up 11m to order.

or this….

https://www.wireantennas.co.uk/hf/11M/CB-Band-NEARLY-INVISABLE-DX-Antenna

I wondered what you think?

Regards Rob.
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Victor
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Call Sign : 26-CT-3228 / M7VIC
Posts : 5696
Times Thanked : 349
Join date : 2019-11-10
QTH or Location : Bedford
Equipment Used : Various

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeTue Nov 28, 2023 3:03 pm

I know what you mean Rob, nothing better than getting atop a hill and away from the QRM. antenna - T2LT antenna solutions 1f44d 

I'm probably the last guy to ask as regards 'purchased' antennas considering I've made every single one of mine from whatever junk I have laying around. Wink

(I deplore paying someone to cut a piece of wire to length....no matter what fancy box they have stuck on the end of it!)

Looks like all the antennas you've shown so far are all half wave so nothing between them really if they do the job they're supposed to do. Half waves are very forgiving of where they're mounted though as in low or near stuff, but once you get to 5/8th wave stuff it gets a lot more sensitive to such poor mounting.
(Of course there's always the 'height is might' and what sort of 'soil' you have under it 'analysis'.)


With the sunspot activity we've already had and still-a-ramping we all should be able to get some good DX contacts with even the proverbial piece of wet string. 

Caveat Emptor I suppose as regards buying anything really, it's your wallet after all.

I wish you well and above all, just simply enjoy yourself. antenna - T2LT antenna solutions 1f44d 

73
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Mitch
Contributor
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Mitch


Call Sign : M1TCH
Posts : 77
Times Thanked : 8
Join date : 2020-01-02
QTH or Location : Leicester
Equipment Used : Yaesu FT-857D, Diamond V2000, Major 3000, President Jackson Mk1, Lafayette AFS-1005, K40 mic, KL203, B550P and Sirio GPE 27 ⅝λ.

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeTue Nov 28, 2023 3:35 pm

From those SWR readings it looks like the aerial is too long, it's better at lower frequencies (longer wavelength) so shortening it an inch or two should help. On another note, if the aerial is 'temporary' and can easily be taken down then the 2m above roof height doesn't apply, that's only for permanent installs and if nobody complains I'd leave it.
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SangueG
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SangueG


Call Sign : 26-CT-3971 / 2E0LMI
Posts : 1110
Times Thanked : 63
Join date : 2021-01-30
QTH or Location : Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Equipment Used : Little radios, home-made antennas

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PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeThu Nov 30, 2023 5:42 am

Thank you Rob for posting the SWR results. Sorry for not coming back to you sooner, but others have given good accurate advice already.

Just a few notes.. whilst the antenna came pre-tuned, there's a high probability that it wasn't tuned at the same height as you have yours now and surrounding objects probably differed, both as I mentioned can upset the antenna tuning.

If you haven't had a go at retuning, it's really easy with a T2LT. You don't need to cut wire off the top, just fold a little bit back on itself. I think many bought ones have a little fold back loop on them already, so if yours does just fold back a little more.

Personally, I wouldn't go for an end fed half wave wire like the couple you have noted as I really don't think you will notice any difference. You could maybe look at a wire 5/8 gainmaster type which, being a little longer/taller "theoretically" gives a little more gain, but note some people find these harder to tune.

I hope you have fun with your T2LT, I HAVE with mine slung up any old how Smile Why not have a go at this years 11m Winter Challenge, starts tomorrow... it's just for fun, so even if you only get 1 point, or even none, you can still enjoy yourself.

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RobChap
New Member
New Member



Call Sign : 26-CT-4465
Posts : 45
Times Thanked : 0
Join date : 2022-03-29
QTH or Location : Sheffield, UK
Equipment Used : President McKinley, CRT SS 9900,CRT M9 Mic, Zetagi TM-999, Sirio Magmount 145, 1/4 Wave 9 foot Tank Whip/Red Devil Antenna. T2LT Wire Antenna on 10m DX Commander.

antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Empty
PostSubject: Re: T2LT antenna solutions   antenna - T2LT antenna solutions Icon_minitimeThu Nov 30, 2023 8:00 am

SangueG wrote:
Thank you Rob for posting the SWR results. Sorry for not coming back to you sooner, but others have given good accurate advice already.

Just a few notes.. whilst the antenna came pre-tuned, there's a high probability that it wasn't tuned at the same height as you have yours now and surrounding objects probably differed, both as I mentioned can upset the antenna tuning.

If you haven't had a go at retuning, it's really easy with a T2LT. You don't need to cut wire off the top, just fold a little bit back on itself. I think many bought ones have a little fold back loop on them already, so if yours does just fold back a little more.

Personally, I wouldn't go for an end fed half wave wire like the couple you have noted as I really don't think you will notice any difference. You could maybe look at a wire 5/8 gainmaster type which, being a little longer/taller "theoretically" gives a little more gain, but note some people find these harder to tune.

I hope you have fun with your T2LT, I HAVE with mine slung up any old how Smile Why not have a go at this years 11m Winter Challenge, starts tomorrow... it's just for fun, so even if you only get 1 point, or even none, you can still enjoy yourself.
Thank you for the reply.
I have an update on the situation regarding the tuned antenna. I have found out that my Zegati TM-999 has an inaccurate/faulty SWR meter!
My CRT SS9900 was showing a different SWR result to the TM999 when I PPT’ed but I thought it was due to the tuning process of the TM999. I was wrong as when I added my NanoVNA it was the same as the CRT.
I checked the SWR curve of the TM999 tuned antenna and it was like a ski jump.
So I retuned the T2LT whilst looking at the VNA until I got a nice flattened V shape as it should be.
I won’t put down all the SWR readings but 27.001 and 27.991 has identical SWR’s at 1.4. For the majority of the frequencies between I have 1.1 to 1.0. It tuned on the VNA to 27.529 down at its lowest point.

Power has increased on FM 5 watts to 35 watts and on SSB I am now outputting 12-15watts. I am peaking at 25 watts with the use of a tone Generator at 2206hz!
I have ordered the 1:1 unun which is coming today and I will check that out on the antenna today without the TM999 to see if it’s improving things untuned. 
I have time for a little radio yesterday and getting great radio reports into Bulgaria and Northern Finland.

Happy Days.

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