Multinorm rig with freq display? Confused

Hi, I'm still trying to decide which type of rig to buy. I can't seem to find any legal multi norm sets that have both channel and freq displays. I am used to a freq display but I know that old school CB uses channels. I'm in the EU if that makes any difference. Currently I have a ham radio but I don't really want to use that on the CB bands for obvious reasons. Also I am mainly interested in DX. Maybe i's a nostalgia trip but I listen in on the CB bands from time to time and now I'd like to be part of the scene again. It was a lot simpler when CB fist hit Europe. I'd get an export rig and mod it but while that would be ok for ham it would render it illegal for CB. Any recommendations? Thanks :-)

Hi Kate,

There's plenty of CB radios to choose from but boy are those prices a bit eye watering!

I was looking at the President range recently but at those sort of prices I could pick up a good used Icom IC-706. (I already have a MKII... For Ham purposes only obviously.)

I know that the UK laws gives us reciprocal licence free operation to utilise SSB/AM on the EU (or old USA) frequencies but doesn't cover those modes on the old UK27/81 frequencies which are FM only. I do not know if those reciprocal rights give European users access to the UK FM frequencies legally....probably not.

Of course as far as a nostalgia trip goes the old 'free-band' frequencies between the two bands are a popular choice still to this day for DX activities, but of course has never been legal to use. (Not that it stops anybody.)

That's understandable if there is a bit of skip action as the EU frequencies are awash with FM signals and used to be in the UK so the 'gap' inbetween gives good DX opportunities clear of that 'noise'. Of course there's always the popular mostly LSB DX signals to be had on the EU frequencies which of course are the American frequencies too.

If you think about it technically you are breaking the law if you are communicating with someone who is utilising illegal equipment....... but then how are you to know?

I think they only changed the regulations in recent years for Americans to be able to legally transmit 'DX' but of course I believe the the power limits still apply. A quick listen to the 'Superbowl' AM signals on a good propagation lift will show otherwise.


I know how you feel regards legalities because once I obtained my Amateur Radio licence I became a bit more protective over it and of course operate within my licence limits regards power and frequency use. That newer mentality has somewhat stifled my old 'breaker' activities and I tend to listen more nowadays than become involved. Then again the Amateur frequencies has opened DX opportunities I could only ever dream of back in my old CB days.

I wish you well and hope others can chime in for specific recommendations for you.

All the best,
Victor

Thank you for your reply Victor. I too would want to keep Ham and CB separate. My feeling is that even with a legal radio you are crossing a line the moment you flick the switch to a band that is not approved in your own country. We don't have access (officially) to old UK frequencies, they are unique to the UK. I guess there is crossover in the CEPT ranges but free banding no matter what rig is used is not strictly right if we are being honest. I doubt anyone would know or trouble as I'm in a remote location but i'd hate to get my main rig confiscated. In addition a legal CB would remove any temptation to increase the power, even for a short while. I prefer to use as little power as possible and challange myself instead to get the most from an antenna.

No problem at all there Kate and I think we're of similar thoughts.

I've invested too much time and money into my Amateur Radio activities to even dream of losing it due to a bit of nostalgic fun. Not that I would impose those thoughts onto others or I wouldn't be here on this forum where grown adults can make their own choices.

Like you I immensely enjoy making low power contacts but relying on propagation conditions even with diminutive antenna systems utilising methods available to us. There is a certain thrill of the challenge associated with such and why I see no need personally to 'progress' up my licence for more 'Watts'.

Each to their own when it comes down to it, we can enjoy any aspect of radio we choose.

I however would also be interested in any such rig that has legal approval for the EU frequencies and certain I would enjoy the low power challenge they could give us. Hopefully as mentioned someone has some useful information to provide.


All the best to you,
Victor

The quest continues. So I think I have narrowed it down. After your very helpful input, special thanks to you Victor, I've concluded the rig needs to be legal and if it's designed for the ham bands it's not. This leaves me with only limited options as availability of legal out of the box sets is thin on the ground here. The President Mc Kinley can be had for 293€ but I don't think it has FM. It also has a small (ish) display but it does have Freq and Channel readouts. The President George 2, is available but it is 329€ (ouch!). It has the lot but it's a premium price. Finally there is the CRT 3900 for 195€. It's old school in looks but has everything this girl needs except a freq readout. A freq counter would add around 90-100€ if I couldn't live without seeing the numbers. Has anyone any experience of these rigs? I've seen YouTube etc. but a review is not like living with the kit. Thanks

Hello Kate,

I haven't used any of the radios you have mentioned, but I know the Mckinley does have fm as a mode.

73s John.

Hi Kate,

The McKinley as John has mentioned does have an FM mode.

I was impressed with the new President George II as well but like you I had a 'choke' at the price too! The CRT3900 also took my eye reminding me of the old Cobra 148 with it's retro looks.

As usual any reviews for a radio always seems to have a personal 'bent' on them with some complaining that it doesn't do everything like make you coffee in the morning. (Joking quip but you get my point.) Others play 'top trumps' with specification numbers and of course the typical complaints of Chinese or far east manufacturing origins. (Even though a lot of old kit was Taiwanese bearing the ROC mark.)

In the UK at least there seems to be a common complaint of 'quiet' FM on transmission with most new CB radios.....Considering the years of 'golden screwdriver experts' that twiddled radios to death to over-deviate the FM modulation I'm hardly surprised that view is expressed. There's also the common use of accessories like 'power' and desk microphones which often leaves a lot to be desired.

The other complaint is the use of modern manufactured parts this being a surface mount mass produced item with people unfairly comparing it to the old Cobra radios and their through hole technology. There was the 3900EFT model which did utilise through hole components akin to days of old (with added bells and whistles like frequency readouts) but of course was more expensive. I also don't think it's available new anymore?

Then of course there's the true-blue nostalgia trip users that swear blind that if it ain't an original it ain't worth squat. (So that'd be a rarer, untouched, over-priced unit then....with 40 odd years under it's belt, passed through many hands and probably someone will mention the re-capping fiascos. )

If you forget unfair comparisons like frequency stability (5ppm is common whereas Ham kit achieves 0.5ppm nowadays, but didn't always historically) and treat them with the same retro appeal as you would an older radio then they are all pretty capable really. I'd say happily so and worth enjoying them for what they are.

It's a dark murky world when we start 'comparing' or 'reviewing' radios and for those looking for every technical spec number it's hardly surprising some utilise Amateur Radio kit for CB use.


I had a look at ANACOM the organisation body for Portugal and it seems that you do have access to the standard EU/CEPT frequencies from 26.965MHz to 27.405MHz with FM/AM/SSB use. With only 40 legal channels to worry about I don't think you'd really require a frequency readout and with the historical 'jumps' on the frequencies it only serves to confuse. ('Alpha' channel jumps after 3, 7, 11, 15, 19 let alone the swap around at 23, 24, 25.)

I wish you well with your shopping there Kate and hope you are happy with your final purchase getting to enjoy some CB action.  

I should have been joining in the fun but reminded that I shelled out a small fortune for my latest Amateur Radio kit already. (Yaesu FT-710)

Maybe a begging letter to Santa might help?


All the very best to you,
Victor

Hi Victor, I think you are spot on with your thoughts on the matter. I'm leaning towards the CRT SS3900 as it seems as good as any and the price is not eye watering. Yes you are right about the 40channels here and that doesn't really need a frequency counter. It does seem to come with all it needs out of the box. I travel a lot within Europe so largely the EU/CEPT will be sufficient. I bought my ham kit a good while back but I wouldn't want to have to buy new again. The thought of loosing access to the ham bands by buying and operating a rig that doesn't conform to legal CB specification is what keeps me from buying a better value, better made 10mtr rig and modifying it. I can listen in on free banders anyway if I so wish but I will not be touching the PTT on a non legal rig. In conclusion Ham and CB need to stay separate in my house. Good luck with the letter to Santa.

Hi John, thanks for the correction on the  Mc Kinley. I saw a review but it turns out the review was old and they were talking about an earlier version of the radio. I see that the Mc Kinley does has FM. It's tempting from the point of view of a front facing speaker but it doesn't seem pretty and it's about 100€ more expensive than the CRT 3900 here. It certainly has a better spec than the CRT 3900 and has more bells and whistles but I'm guessing I wouldn't use many of it's extra features, after all CB is meant to be basic. I have the Ham side of things for the fancy stuff. It's a bit like my washing machine, it sings a happy tune when it's done, it has a million settings even though it just has to wash clothes and I just use one of three settings as all the others are not really necessary.

Hi Kate,

You are welcome.

I like the washing machine analogy. That is why one of my favourite radios is the Yeticom Optima (sadly no longer in production). It has everything I need and nothing I don't and it is compact, too.

I also have an FT450d, too, for DXing on HF. Although I am not licensed.

As you are a licensed amateur, I do respect your decision to stay legal.

Good luck with your choice and best 73s, John.

Hi John, I have checking into the legal aspect of CB here in Portugal and I think I have found something interesting. It seems that while we must abide by the legal transmission specifications for CB, eg. Frq, power, mode etc. we are not constrained by the requirement to have a certified rig as long as we hold a Ham licence. This is because when they changed the law to make CB licence free here they did not reinstate the requirement for the equipment to be approved for CB. A non Ham cannot however use Ham kit so they would have to use kit that cannot be modified. With this in mind I'm now able to consider the CRT SS6900 which look far better value than the CRT SS3900. i could mod the 9600 to only operate on the CB spec and still be legal. Happy days :-) Ps. I could just use my Ham rig but I'd have to keep changing settings to stay legal.